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Session Start: Mon Feb 13 00:00:29 2012
Session Ident: #Fantasia
[00:00] * Now talking in #Fantasia
[00:00] * Topic is 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Wiki/Structure Creation'
[00:00] * Set by Golden!cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net on Sun Feb 12 22:25:58
[00:00] * winchestersp is now known as Chronicler
[00:01] <Winchester> Finally, something useful for my server to do...
[00:02] * Chronicler is now known as Archivist
[00:02] * Archivist is now known as Guest45430
[00:04] <@Golden> lol
[00:04] * Guest45430 is now known as Winchester_logkeeper
[00:04] <Winchester> There, now that should do it
[00:05] <gamlain> hum...
[00:06] <Winchester> That machine is permanently on, so it should be able to record everything that's said even if I'm not there to see it
[00:07] <gamlain> I'm going to be kind of blunt here about something.
[00:10] <DarthArtemis> back
[00:11] <gamlain> There's an accusation there that I've been doing things 'off on my own'. I'm afraid that's completely true. It's completely true because I'm just about the only damn one producing anything. I didn't set out to be the main contributor to this project - at first I was just writing fragments for amusement sake set sideways to the main storyline. However - I found I rather like the universe
[00:11] <gamlain> and writing in it, and kept producing, and started to make a semi-coherant plot in my stuff. THen I wound up taking over a group that was sort of vital to being examined, and snowballed from there. At this point, I'm not sure what the comparison looks like, but the last time somone did an analysis, I'd produced something like 70% of what's actually written if not more.
[00:12] <@Golden> True
[00:12] <Winchester> Most of us are well aware of that
[00:17] <Winchester> Without you posting coherent snippets to keep the interest up and keep the story going, this whole thing would have imploded within a month, because the only one writing back then was AngryDesu and he's, no offense meant, sloooow.
[00:18] <@Golden> None taken
[00:18] <@Golden> From past experiences
[00:18] <@Golden> :p
[00:18] <gamlain> So. I'm within a couple of days, in story - far longer than that IRL but it tkaes time - of bringin all my plotlines together and having the proto-alliance realize they've become something of one, and then realizing they have no idea what to do about it. To showcase someting that large in concept takes a lot of viewpoints, hence the split. The multiple viewpoints also keep me writing.
[00:18] <gamlain> That's what I've been working towards the whole time.
[00:19] <@Golden> Duh.
[00:19] <@Golden> :p
[00:20] <Thy-Robocop> well then, there we go
[00:20] <@Golden> It was obvious.
[00:20] <Winchester> Most of the story discussion threads on SB.com tend to forget that it's the writer that has final say. If he isn't writing what everyone else wants, then fuckem, they can write it themselves if they think they can do better.
[00:21] <@Golden> Once we got past the Yamigaia, he was starting this.
[00:22] <gamlain> I don't have any solid plans for 'arc 2' or whatever it is that comes after that realization and the NF war. Any solid plans for that are premature yet, because I don't know what the situation is going to look like at the end of arc 1 yet. As I approach that, the characters I'm writing are dictating parts of the plot. I've added some forshadowing for later arcs in there, which can be used
[00:22] <gamlain> for various things, but deliberately kept them fairly vague.
[00:24] <DarthArtemis> win, that's only true when there's only one author. gamlain's stuff is shaping the entire arc and forcing other authors like Desu to write around him.
[00:24] <gamlain> For one thing the concequences of the NF being a worldwide, spread out threat haven't really been looked at.
[00:25] <@Golden> Not for the beginning
[00:25] <@Golden> And for the NF Raid
[00:25] <@Golden> And for Kuroha's early existance.
[00:25] <@Golden> And for the Nightmare Demolition Corps
[00:26] <@Golden> We can easily tie in the NF as observing the group after the failed Raid.
[00:26] <DarthArtemis> the NDC don't even exist in the writing yet, they're just something you dreamed up and haven't written anything about yet
[00:26] <@Golden> gamlain is going to write.
[00:27] <@Golden> Already spoke with him about it.
[00:27] <@Golden> I'm writing the early stuff.
[00:27] <gamlain> I'll need to see that before I can use them, G, so if you have any, send it my way.
[00:28] <@Golden> When I talked with you yesterday.
[00:28] <Winchester> This project is like a group of kids sitting around a big pile of legos, and while gamlain seems to be hogging all the bricks, what he's building is fascinating enough that it's only a couple of the most spoiled so to speak who're complaining about it. :)
[00:28] <@Golden> great analogy
[00:29] <DarthArtemis> except they're Desu's legos. what's he supposed to build with?
[00:30] <gamlain> It's more like I'm the only one building anything and everyone else is yelling about what they want built, but not putting things together, really. Come on - I know I entertain but I kind of want to see your stories too.
[00:30] <Winchester> Some of us are sitting around watching in awe, some of us are going "wouldn't it be awesome if this brick went there", and some of us are content with using the bricks that gamlain isn't interested in right now
[00:31] <AngryDesu> I have other, ZnT flavor bricks anyway.
[00:31] <Winchester> But are they really Desu's legos, Darth?
[00:31] <AngryDesu> I mean color. Why did i say flavor?
[00:32] <Winchester> lol
[00:33] * dan-heron (cgiirc@76C354BA.B8C06557.18A8FAFF.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[00:33] <DarthArtemis> because you're hungry, that's why
[00:34] <AngryDesu> What would ZnT flavor even *be*? For some reason i'm thinking... bubblegum.
[00:34] <dan-heron> too much pink
[00:34] <Thy-Robocop> ok, I guess I need to sign off now
[00:34] <dan-heron> and hey again
[00:34] <Thy-Robocop> anyways
[00:34] <DarthArtemis> i have homework
[00:34] <DarthArtemis> bye
[00:34] <AngryDesu> Aaand now i'm imagining Louise has bubblegum flavor hair.
[00:34] <dan-heron> bye
[00:34] <gamlain> take care.
[00:34] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[00:34] <Thy-Robocop> hand on
[00:34] <Thy-Robocop> hang on
[00:34] <Thy-Robocop> I've still got something to say
[00:35] <dan-heron> it was for Darth?
[00:35] <Winchester> I was thinking ZnT tasted like strawberry. Badly written, it's like that synthetic sugar-free strawberry taste, well written it's like fresh strawberrys with cream on a summer day
[00:35] <Thy-Robocop> no, for gamlain
[00:35] <AngryDesu> My neice is deathly allergic to strawberries.
[00:35] <AngryDesu> your znt is killing my family.
[00:35] <gamlain> I'm still here
[00:35] <Thy-Robocop> aye
[00:36] <Thy-Robocop> about plans for the rest of your storyline of arc one
[00:36] <Winchester> ...and like strawberrys, some can't stand ZnT. Or should I be writing it the other way around
[00:36] <Thy-Robocop> do you have main points that you can share?
[00:36] <Thy-Robocop> that's one thing
[00:37] <Thy-Robocop> for the second one, cooperation between our snippets, I will get back to you once I finish the two main quests of Skyrim
[00:37] <Thy-Robocop> so possibly either tomorrow everning or Tuesday evening
[00:37] <Thy-Robocop> I'll just wait for your reply, then I log off today
[00:37] <dan-heron> oh yeah, Gam, I'm not using the old STR vs NF snip I wrote a while ago. If you want to use it knock yourself
[00:38] <gamlain> Well, one of the things is that - oooh, a cookie. Sorry, what was I saying? *lack of attention span* *nods about quests, I have a main quest of my own to use for inspiration for mamoru..*
[00:39] <Winchester> That's something to do on the wiki index - put strikethrough tags on the snippets we've decided against using, but keep them on the index so we can mine them for ideas
[00:39] <gamlain> Lindy, Venus and co are all sitting on peices of the picture; They haven't had time yet to really see what it is, and realize that there are a *lot* of DK's out there.
[00:40] <AngryDesu> Hum hum. coming home bit is moving at last. ZnT stuff is still going nowhere. Stupid Louise.
[00:41] <gamlain> They're getting that time slowly. And that's the realizaiton that makes the Alliance, as an alliance, /needed/.
[00:43] <gamlain> Otherwise, I'm mainly at the point of putting people into contact with each other and describing initial skirmishes with the NF as part of the wind up to their resolution. As far as overall metaplot goes anyhow. There are sub-plots going through this too (The foundation of Yami's kingdom for refugees from evil armies, for example, or the emotional plots running through the casts of adjusting
[00:43] <gamlain> to this.), but those are largely personal. Except for Yami's kingdom though.
[00:44] <gamlain> Core-recruiting, I think it'd be called.
[00:45] <dan-heron> well, Yami's segment can be put to the side after the current crisis taken care of.
[00:45] <dan-heron> or were you planning to bring them for the final conflict?
[00:46] <gamlain> Actually I wanted to establish them as a place where a lot of people/things that used to be people and can be again can go when the bosses of the NF cack it. Which means they need to have a certain minimum development for that to be beleivable later.
[00:47] <dan-heron> true, true. It'd need a lot of work considering their state at the moment
[00:47] <gamlain> ..and my Zerg of Skyrim's predicessor has been seriously delayed by all this exposition. :P
[00:48] <Thy-Robocop> ok then
[00:49] <Thy-Robocop> that will be all for now from me
[00:49] <dan-heron> see ya
[00:49] <Thy-Robocop> gamlain: expect a PM regarding that snippet cooperation relatively soon
[00:49] <gamlain> later
[00:49] <gamlain> cool
[00:49] <Thy-Robocop> bye all
[00:49] <Fenris_B> Note: Never forget the damn oven mitt again.
[00:49] <Thy-Robocop> gamlain: as in, possibly tomorrow, if not Tuesday
[00:49] <gamlain> Or you can email it. ..I maybe ought to pay for the enhanced PM box at some point. *nods*
[00:49] <Thy-Robocop> see ya
[00:49] <gamlain> ouch, Fenris.
[00:50] <gamlain> and I'm back to being idle myself for a while.
[00:50] <Thy-Robocop> gamlain: if you can send me your e-mail by PM, then I will remember it for later
[00:50] <Thy-Robocop> see ya
[00:50] <gamlain> k
[00:50] <Fenris_B> Bye
[00:54] * Thy-Robocop (qwebirc@Rizon-7EAE7BB8.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:57] <@Golden> See ya later.
[00:57] * @Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[01:01] <dan-heron> was there any other discussion beyond the stuff with MA before?
[01:02] <AngryDesu> not really?
[01:03] <AngryDesu> either way - time for me to hit the sack. got (annoying) appointments to keep in the morning. Ugh.
[01:03] <dan-heron> night, Desu
[01:04] * AngryDesu (AngryDesu@Rizon-2B24D799.bb.sky.com) Quit
[01:05] <Fenris_B> Night
[01:07] * Fenris_B_ (qwebirc@Rizon-552DEC7.src.centurytel.net) has joined #Fantasia
[01:08] * Fenris_B_ (qwebirc@Rizon-552DEC7.src.centurytel.net) Quit
[01:09] * Fenris_Blackwell (qwebirc@Rizon-552DEC7.src.centurytel.net) has joined #Fantasia
[01:09] * Fenris_B (qwebirc@Rizon-FF2304AA.src.centurytel.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[01:24] * Fenris_Blackwell (qwebirc@Rizon-552DEC7.src.centurytel.net) Quit (Quit: Rizon webchat: http://qchat.rizon.net/)
[01:45] <gamlain> off for food and probably the night.
[01:45] * gamlain (gamlain@Rizon-DCA73F88.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit
[01:47] * dan-heron (cgiirc@76C354BA.B8C06557.18A8FAFF.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[01:49] * Winchester (~Wincheste@Rizon-95EF240D.cust.tele2.se) Quit
[03:01] * gamlain (gamlain@Rizon-DCA73F88.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) has joined #Fantasia
[03:11] * havocfett (~Mibbit@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[03:12] * gamlain (gamlain@Rizon-DCA73F88.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) Quit
[03:15] * dan-heron (cgiirc@76C354BA.B8C06557.18A8FAFF.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[03:15] * dan-heron (cgiirc@76C354BA.B8C06557.18A8FAFF.IP) Quit
[07:09] * dan-heron (cgiirc@D8D26C61.7423F3D9.18A8FAFF.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[07:15] * dan-heron (cgiirc@D8D26C61.7423F3D9.18A8FAFF.IP) Quit
[07:49] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[07:49] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) Quit
[08:11] * havocfett (~Mibbit@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[08:12] * havocfett (~Mibbit@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[10:22] * Zeruel (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) has joined #Fantasia
[10:26] <Zeruel> Maan, I an so not used to seeing a channel without color...
[10:27] <havocfett> Heh
[10:27] <Zeruel> Hey, hey, hey! I happen to like my colorful channel!
[10:27] <Zeruel> You're in it; see how cool it is!
[10:27] <Zeruel> And I can seperate any announcements or topics, WITH COLOR! :P
[10:32] <havocfett> It's kind of glaring
[10:32] <Zeruel> I still like it.
[10:33] * Zeruel (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: It is only by my might and will that I even allowed you to speak to me.)
[10:33] * Zeruel (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) has joined #Fantasia
[10:34] * Zeruel is now known as Guest15949
[10:35] * Guest15949 is now known as Zeruel
[10:42] <Zeruel> When is this place usually active?
[10:45] <havocfett> Not sure
[10:45] <havocfett> When there's something major to discuss, normally
[11:41] * Winchester (~Wincheste@Rizon-95EF240D.cust.tele2.se) has joined #Fantasia
[11:59] * oof (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[12:37] * Zeruel (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Quit: It is only by my might and will that I even allowed you to speak to me.)
[12:58] * havocfett (~Mibbit@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[13:04] * oof (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) Quit (Quit: Rizon webchat: http://qchat.rizon.net/)
[17:37] * LurkingGoblin (cgiirc@Rizon-71397D14.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[17:37] <Winchester> Welcome!
[17:37] <LurkingGoblin> hey
[17:37] <Winchester> Nothing much happening right now...
[17:38] <LurkingGoblin> kk
[17:38] <LurkingGoblin> just got up about 40 minutes ago, thought I would hop on and check things
[17:38] <LurkingGoblin> make sure the project hadn't exploded over night
[17:38] <LurkingGoblin> =P
[17:41] <Winchester> Nah, there hasn't been anything posted regarding the project since everyone logged off last night. Havocfett and Zeruel were on for a bit earlier, but they only exchanged a couple of words about how empty the place was before leaving again.
[17:43] <Winchester> The only thing related to the project that I've seen today is Darth making noise again in the forum
[17:46] * Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[17:46] <LurkingGoblin> hey battle
[17:46] <LurkingGoblin> and kk, checking forums now
[17:47] <Winchester> o/
[17:48] <Winchester> BRB, it's bangers and mash time
[17:50] <LurkingGoblin> *translates into american* that's hot dogs and mashed potatoes right?
[18:01] <Winchester> More or less. In my case, not exactly hotdogs, but still sausages and mashed taters.
[18:02] <Winchester> (Actually, not sure what kind of sausages real "bangers and mash" consist of, I'm not actually a brit)
[18:04] <LurkingGoblin> heh
[18:05] <LurkingGoblin> now i'm kinda hungry, gonna need to eat soon
[18:35] <Golden> Darth trashed your idea LurkingGoblin
[18:37] <LurkingGoblin> eh' only his last point and first really count. middle two are debatable
[18:37] <LurkingGoblin> though he is right on the first and last
[18:38] <LurkingGoblin> didn't realise Rei refused to bow to the Emporer
[18:39] <LurkingGoblin> he's practically the Japanese version of god, if she wn't bow to him, stuff guys in robes will be laughed at and summarily punted into orbit
[18:42] <Golden> Not so much these days.
[18:42] <Golden> Though he's still venerated.
[18:42] <Winchester> ...I really need to reread all the snippets
[18:44] <Winchester> I only read the BRS stuff last night, trying to get some feel for dan-heron's versions of the Black Paradoxes
[18:48] <Golden> Memory is excellent
[18:49] <Winchester> ?
[18:53] * havocfett (~Mibbit@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[18:54] <havocfett> How're you guys doing, as far as wiki structure goes?
[18:54] <Golden> People are updating.
[18:54] <Golden> And stop acting so distant :p
[18:55] <LurkingGoblin> you're one of the family now! *glomps havoc*
[18:55] <Winchester> I'm working on filling out a character list on the Wiki right now
[18:56] <LurkingGoblin> @Winchester: cool
[18:56] <havocfett> Heh
[18:56] <havocfett> Well, that's good
[18:56] <Winchester> Real Name (Magical Girl title) - occupation, age, date of first appearance
[18:57] <Winchester> Need to know how old the Senshi are right now. :)
[18:57] <Golden> Late 20's
[18:57] <Golden> Go by the manga date.
[18:58] <Golden> Unless stated otherwise.
[19:00] <LurkingGoblin> I'm hunting music for the soundtrack atm, encase anyone is wondering =P
[19:01] <LurkingGoblin> looking at Cryoshell's stuff, it's normally great for listening to while reading something
[19:02] <Winchester> Still wishing for "Transformation" from Macross Frontier OST 2 - Nyan Tora
[19:04] <LurkingGoblin> eh' bit to mecha sounding for me
[19:05] <LurkingGoblin> I see gundam, or rideback when I hear that, not hearts and rainbows
[19:05] <Winchester> Maybe. But the images that go in my head when I hear it is hundreds of magical girls transforming together, a whole football stadium full of them.
[19:06] <LurkingGoblin> that...needs to happen
[19:06] <LurkingGoblin> quick someone get Desu or Gamlain we must plant the scenebunny!
[19:06] <Winchester> Yes it does. And if there's one scene I want animated, that's the one.
[19:08] <Winchester> Put it in your sig, that way they'll see it every time you post until they can't get it out of their heads either.
[19:08] <LurkingGoblin> what scene thus far/character theme should this be for? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji9cb1upJLw
[19:09] <havocfett> Someone under attack by the NF, or an NF victory scene?
[19:10] <LurkingGoblin> something like that
[19:11] <Golden> We have NF music already in the OST :p
[19:11] <LurkingGoblin> also true
[19:11] <LurkingGoblin> then there's this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEDwQFLFH98
[19:12] <Winchester> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dln5LXJKrRI
[19:13] <Winchester> "I'm terribly sorry, but please pay attention. You'll die if you look away."
[19:14] <LurkingGoblin> My-Otome is already part of the BFP isn't it? (it's implied that all included series soundtracks are included)
[19:15] <Golden> It's non-canon at the moment
[19:15] <LurkingGoblin> also I am as of now replacing Akiko's suicide theme to this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7uyBCMHGPY
[19:15] <Winchester> Lord Archive jumped ship and took his snippets with him; and mine, while still on the books, need a lot of work.
[19:16] <LurkingGoblin> that's so so very what is playing during that scene
[19:16] <Winchester> Besides, mine are for Otome proper, not he prequel
[19:19] <havocfett> Why did Archive jump ship?
[19:21] <Winchester> He blew up near the end of thread nine, over everyone wanting him to do stuff he didn't like to Sakura
[19:21] <havocfett> Ah
[19:21] <havocfett> So just before I showed up (again)? Shame.
[19:22] <LurkingGoblin> eh's his stuff was good but never seemed to match the tone everyone else had going, it felt more like some weird version of Card Captor fanfic to me
[19:23] <LurkingGoblin> the characters being up aged, while making sense made it feel...werid
[19:23] <LurkingGoblin> weird*
[19:23] <havocfett> Right tehn
[19:23] <havocfett> One moment, yelling at DA more
[19:23] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[19:24] <Golden> I upped the age of the Magic Knights too.
[19:24] <Golden> Though that's because there was a year in place.
[19:25] <LurkingGoblin> True but the nights were teens, not 8 in series
[19:25] <LurkingGoblin> Sakura as a 30 year old with kids was..weird
[19:25] <Golden> Sakura was supposed to be 16.
[19:26] <Golden> If she was 8-9
[19:26] <Winchester> Probably makes more sense if you've watched Tsubasa: Reservoir Chronicles.
[19:26] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[19:26] <LurkingGoblin> I can't not see her as a loli with a hammer/staff/thing thwacking cards for awesomeness
[19:26] <Golden> 30's too old
[19:26] <Golden> And I thought she was 10.
[19:26] <LurkingGoblin> I know, which is why I thought Archives stuff was odd
[19:26] <DarthArtemis> who's a card-whacking loli now?
[19:27] <LurkingGoblin> Sakura
[19:27] <havocfett> Sakura
[19:27] <havocfett> From Card Captor of the same name
[19:27] <Winchester> Ninjas
[19:27] <DarthArtemis> thought so, thought of Vita at first for some reason
[19:27] <Winchester> She's hammerloli
[19:27] <DarthArtemis> she still whacks things
[19:28] * dan-heron (cgiirc@4EB8538D.FBBAA86B.18A8FAFF.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[19:28] <LurkingGoblin> I always thought of Sakuras staff as a hammer because she thawacked things with it
[19:28] * DarthArtemis pictures Vita bludgeoning the cards into submission with Sakura's star wand
[19:28] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[19:28] <LurkingGoblin> course my memory of sakura is faint
[19:29] <LurkingGoblin> i watched it 10 years ago in english on tv
[19:29] <DarthArtemis> blargh
[19:29] <LurkingGoblin> likely entirely different then the japanese version, I know had bad dubs can be
[19:29] <DarthArtemis> you watched Cardcaptors
[19:29] <DarthArtemis> not Card Captor Sakura
[19:29] <DarthArtemis> the fail was strong in that dub. like stronger than the Sailor Moon dub
[19:30] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[19:30] <DarthArtemis> CLAMP was so pissed they made the dubbers change the name
[19:30] <Golden> Except the Sailor Moon dub gets a pass.
[19:30] <dan-heron> and that's why I'm glad I watched my anime through latin dubs
[19:30] <dan-heron> and hello people
[19:30] <Winchester> There were two versions of the dub, one is more faithful but I don't know if it was on TV
[19:30] <Golden> That was what got many people into anime in the first place.
[19:31] <dan-heron> so, has anything important been discussed today?
[19:31] <DarthArtemis> i just got here
[19:31] <Golden> Not really
[19:31] <dan-heron> can somebody tell me if Zouken was discussed during the weekend?
[19:31] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golden
[19:31] <havocfett> There's no reason to keep him in hte story
[19:32] <@Golden> Red herring
[19:32] <dan-heron> not even as a red herring?
[19:32] <@Golden> Remember what I said about the Nasuverse?
[19:32] <dan-heron> I thought the original idea was that he was already dead and the people from PI suspected it was him due to the place and people that got involved
[19:32] <@Golden> We could use things that are implied as to exist in PI
[19:32] <DarthArtemis> how would they know he had anything to do with Sakura/Shirou?
[19:33] <@Golden> Don't they tend to keep records of bloodlines?
[19:33] <dan-heron> ok, then why are Sakura and Shirou involved?
[19:33] <DarthArtemis> If he's dead he'd have been dead for a few hundred years. who would even remember he existed?
[19:33] <dan-heron> but, isn't he shown in PI, Darth?
[19:34] * Thy-Robocop (qwebirc@Rizon-7EAE7BB8.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #Fantasia
[19:34] <DarthArtemis> AM's first victims. i think he makes a brief cameo, but if he's not plot important yet we can probably ignore that
[19:34] <Winchester> ...rereading the "Paradoxes vs Signum" snippets right now. "We're gonna get owned" indeed.
[19:34] <dan-heron> somebody mentioned before that he should be long dead, but then somebody mentioned that Zouken showed up as an old man in PI
[19:34] <Thy-Robocop> OK
[19:34] <LurkingGoblin> in less important news, i'm working on the soundtrack, so i'ma just throw this out there and see what scene/character/group this might go with. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cavxkH7WYU8
[19:34] <Thy-Robocop> hello everyone
[19:34] <dan-heron> hey Robo
[19:34] <LurkingGoblin> hello
[19:35] <Winchester> Yo. Now all we're missing is the authors
[19:35] <Thy-Robocop> just posted an idea for how to develop the MA for arc 2
[19:35] <@Golden> Saw it
[19:35] <dan-heron> well, Gam gets back from work in other 7 hours, WInchester
[19:36] <Winchester> That's past my bedtime, strictly speaking. Haven't bothered with those in years though.
[19:37] <LurkingGoblin> *pokes everyone* how's that song look for being added to our ST?
[19:37] <DarthArtemis> thy, that still doesn't cover the Association's innate arrogance. working with non-magi is beneath them.
[19:38] <Thy-Robocop> DarthArtemis: by non-magi, does that mean humans?
[19:38] <Thy-Robocop> DarthArtemis: or also magical girls?
[19:38] <LurkingGoblin> on the MA I am now well and truely in the "Drop them entirely, or make them OC" group. They just don't fit.
[19:39] <DarthArtemis> humans and magical girls. with some exceptions for magical girl lineages like the devil hunter clans from Devil Hunter Yohko
[19:39] <DarthArtemis> monsters would probably be seen as interesting test subjects at best, animals at worst
[19:39] <LurkingGoblin> if the only way to have them stay IC is to kill MGs or mindrape normals they do not fit
[19:39] <DarthArtemis> LG?
[19:39] <dan-heron> "first generation" magi like they will see most of the teams, fit in the "not working with" right?
[19:40] <DarthArtemis> how does their attitude make them any different from any given Dark Kingdom?
[19:40] <dan-heron> Dark Kingdoms actually laugh and congratulate themselves when their plans go according to the letter
[19:40] <LurkingGoblin> because we DON'T WANT ANOTHER DARK KINGDOM WHICH IS WHY WE ADDED THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!! GRAAAAWWWW!!! *Explodes*
[19:41] <dan-heron> the MA sounds more like they do that behind closed doors
[19:41] <LurkingGoblin> sorry...I need food
[19:41] <havocfett> Rhaka has hte right idea, as far as the MA goes
[19:41] <LurkingGoblin> it's just... we don't want another cookie cutter enemy
[19:42] <DarthArtemis> they're not cookie cutter enemies
[19:42] <havocfett> Then don't make them cookie cutter
[19:42] <havocfett> If the MA, from nasuverse, isn't going to provide a real and serious threat in the story
[19:42] <DarthArtemis> did you miss the part i posted about them being split along philosophical lines? younger magi vs older magi?
[19:42] <havocfett> Then you throw them out
[19:42] <havocfett> Yes, I did
[19:42] <Thy-Robocop> DarthArtemis: I did too
[19:42] <havocfett> And that is a story about the MA and its civil wr
[19:42] <havocfett> Not one about the Magical Girl Alliance
[19:42] <Winchester> Dark kingdoms - as in lots of them at once - is where gamlain was planning to take things, though.
[19:42] <Thy-Robocop> exactly
[19:42] <havocfett> Which this is supposed to be about.
[19:43] <@Golden> Side-story
[19:43] <DarthArtemis> the second arc is about the world reacting to the return of magic
[19:43] <havocfett> Yes
[19:43] <@Golden> And Thy-Robocop
[19:43] <havocfett> So, you have governments trying to form their own task forces
[19:43] <havocfett> The MA trying to do their jobs
[19:43] <havocfett> Whatever we decide those are
[19:43] <LurkingGoblin> the MA really need to go. they just do not fit. because they are either ineffectual. or TOO effectual.
[19:43] <Thy-Robocop> Golden: aye?
[19:43] <havocfett> And the Dark Kingdoms realizing that there are other Dark Kingdoms, with goals similar and opposite
[19:44] <havocfett> And them doing stuff in reaction to their publicity
[19:44] <DarthArtemis> you start to see the point, fett. there's a lot more viewpoints to cover than just what the Alliance is doing
[19:44] <havocfett> And, as ES outlined, ability to track down girls who stop them.
[19:44] <havocfett> Yes
[19:44] <DarthArtemis> it isn't just about them
[19:44] <havocfett> But you should make side stories and snippets about them, not devote an entire arc too 'here's this other organization.'
[19:44] <Winchester> I'm looking through the snippets right now, and I really, really want to pester gamlain into doing something about the names for the Joes he's using..
[19:45] <DarthArtemis> but the Association is sharing the spotlight with all these other groups, both mundane and otherwise.
[19:45] <@Golden> Read PM
[19:45] <dan-heron> Darth, you still want to bring Goyan into the conflict?
[19:45] <LurkingGoblin> yes but the MA doesn't fit except as a trivial side problem. Something for side stories, not the main plot
[19:46] <DarthArtemis> @DH: still thinking about it, the current discussion has me distracted though
[19:47] <DarthArtemis> @LG: the MA is the established international magical power of the pre-reveal world. They fit just as well as any Dark Kingdom you could possibly inclue
[19:47] <DarthArtemis> they're what the Alliance is going to replace. of course their reaction is super-relevant
[19:48] <havocfett> But they need to either be a /proper/ /threat/ as a main villain
[19:48] <havocfett> Or used more effectively as a side organization
[19:48] <LurkingGoblin> exactly
[19:49] <dan-heron> but they aren't supposed to be the main villain, Havoc
[19:49] <havocfett> Who /is/?
[19:49] <DarthArtemis> right now there isn't one. the conflict is the Alliance trying to stop things from spiraling completely out of control
[19:49] <LurkingGoblin> I'm actually fully with havoc here. his post on the forum as well
[19:50] <dan-heron> it's the change of wold views for the entire world, Havoc
[19:50] <Winchester> Ugh, there are achievements on Wikia now?
[19:50] <dan-heron> sure, the MA are antagonists, but just because the Alliance beats them doesn't mean everything is done and over
[19:50] <DarthArtemis> I gave you that post in the previous thread. people are panicking because monsters can be anywhere. politicians everywhere are under suspicion of being under demonic possession. things like that
[19:50] <havocfett> Right then, do more with it
[19:50] <LurkingGoblin> We should replace the MA with an OC faction that actually works, or alter the MA so they DO
[19:50] <havocfett> The MA /dealt/ /with/ /that/ /shit/ for a long time
[19:51] <dan-heron> but they can't do it anymore
[19:51] <havocfett> And if they fall apart, then most of the bookkeeping and forces that dealt with every single threat under teh bed is gone
[19:52] <dan-heron> not really. The people who kept the biggest threats are still present
[19:52] <DarthArtemis> fett, the Association wasn't dealing with any more threats than the average magical girl. they were just as stuck under the masquerade as anyone else
[19:52] <dan-heron> hell, in case of some groups like White and Black got the threats to work with them, Havoc
[19:52] <dan-heron> something the MA could have never done
[19:52] <dan-heron> the MA was doing their job, HAvoc. They think they are still doing the heavy lifting
[19:52] <havocfett> Yes
[19:52] <havocfett> I know
[19:52] <dan-heron> the thing is, that hundreds of other teams did the job
[19:53] * DirkBastion (RadomirAby@Rizon-4A78D306.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #Fantasia
[19:53] * DirkBastion is now known as Rhaka
[19:53] <Winchester> Welcome
[19:53] <Rhaka> Thanks
[19:53] <Rhaka> Good evening everyone.
[19:53] <havocfett> Yes
[19:54] <havocfett> Hey Rhaka
[19:54] <havocfett> Right: What do we want to do with the MA
[19:54] <dan-heron> hey Rhaka
[19:54] <havocfett> Because I think that an OC organization will be more useful for the plot than the Nasuverse version
[19:55] <havocfett> And would bring in less baggage
[19:55] <dan-heron> They are one of the Human sides in the conflict in Arc 2
[19:55] <@Golden> The problem in havocfett
[19:55] <Winchester> BSSM, BRS, Sailor Nothing and MSLN's characters (most of them at least) have now been added to the character index, as well as some of our originals. THe list is still woefully incomplete, though, and lacks info on age etc for a lot of people.
[19:55] <@Golden> The reason the MA was brought in was because WE DON'T WANT TO HAVE MORE THAN ONE MAIN OC ENEMY
[19:55] <havocfett> Why?
[19:55] <Rhaka> Winchester, good job!
[19:56] <DarthArtemis> the fewer OCs we have the better
[19:56] <havocfett> Good job Winchester
[19:56] <havocfett> Right then, you are using the Prisma Ilya version of Nasu-verse, correct?
[19:56] <havocfett> One of the ones with fewer details and stupid shit?
[19:56] <DarthArtemis> Yup
[19:56] <dan-heron> yes Havoc
[19:56] <havocfett> and no mysteriously unnoticed city eating vampires
[19:56] <@Golden> Indeed
[19:56] <dan-heron> no Vampires
[19:56] <DarthArtemis> no vampires anywhere
[19:56] <havocfett> ....Doesn't Prisma Ilya give like, no details on the MA?
[19:56] <@Golden> We're not using the whole Nasuverse
[19:56] <DarthArtemis> ...wait...
[19:57] <Winchester> Counting the new generation of the Sailor Nothing gang, there's about half a dozen original MGs I've identified so far
[19:57] <havocfett> So can't you do /anything/ with them to fit them into the plot?
[19:57] <dan-heron> only a few, Havoc. Through Rin and Luvia's interactions with Zeltretch
[19:57] <dan-heron> or whatever his name is
[19:57] <DarthArtemis> there is whatever gamlain turned Shinobu into, but she's not a Nasuverse style vampire by all appearances
[19:57] <@Golden> It's based off of Triangle Heart
[19:57] <@Golden> That
[19:57] <havocfett> Right then
[19:57] <Rhaka> Sounds like what I've been thinking we're operating on.
[19:57] <havocfett> What do we want the MA to /do/, besides 'be humans and antagonistic'
[19:57] <Rhaka> Keep the names, keep characters that appeared in Illya, but twist them around so they fit the BFP setting.
[19:57] <havocfett> Because currently, I am liking Rhaka's idea
[19:57] <Rhaka> And then we find their niche.
[19:58] <@Golden> As is Arisa's eventual MG transformation reflecting her ghost nature in TH
[19:58] <Rhaka> And I thought it was the HP/CoW one.
[19:58] <dan-heron> what was Rhaka's idea, HAvoc?
[19:58] <Thy-Robocop> havocfett: did you read my latest idea?
[19:58] <havocfett> Because it keeps hte MA, at its core, gives them a motivation that makes sense, and slots them into the backstory
[19:58] <havocfett> Not yet
[19:58] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Wiki/Structure Creation, Magus Association, Arc 1'
[19:58] <havocfett> http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=7278307&postcount=95
[19:58] <havocfett> Rhaka's idea
[19:59] <Rhaka> Ah, that's mostly a summary of yesterday.
[19:59] <Rhaka> But yes, I'm for keeping the MA in the niche the post describes.
[19:59] <@Golden> BTW Rhaka
[19:59] <Rhaka> Add a dash of SCP Foundation if you want to.
[19:59] <havocfett> Thy, your idea works, though I still prefer the stuff we got yesterday, personally.
[19:59] <@Golden> It's Sea of Estay
[19:59] <Rhaka> Oh
[20:00] <LurkingGoblin> I'm still with Havoc, also I have added stuff to the soundtrack, if anyone wants to go check that out
[20:01] <Rhaka> I'm still checking up on the thread, btw.
[20:02] <Rhaka> But it seems there's conflagration between Prism Illya and the main Nasuverse going on.
[20:02] <Thy-Robocop> speaking of which
[20:03] <Winchester> BTW, picture the following: A football stadium full of magical girls, transforming at the same time.
[20:03] <@Golden> As you've noticed, we tend to hybridize certain works.
[20:04] <Rhaka> Yes, but this is a problem in this certain case, because the Nasuverse apparently contains a whole lot of baggage simply by the virtue of being so massive. And so thematically opposite to BFP.
[20:04] <Thy-Robocop> is there anything in Prism lllya that states that the MA are the same arrogant bastards that they are in the Nasuverse?
[20:04] <@Golden> We aren't taking all of the Nasuverse
[20:04] <Thy-Robocop> or was that bit extrapolated from Nasuverse?
[20:04] <Rhaka> Only the mind rape eyes?
[20:05] <@Golden> That's Darth
[20:05] <havocfett> That bit was, according to my source, extrapolated from the Nasuverse. Or maybe it was just the easy mind control.
[20:05] <Rhaka> Okay.
[20:05] <@Golden> And I was refering to Atlas
[20:05] <dan-heron> mostly extrapolated. But people like Bazzet seem to be the norm. From what I remember, Rin was expecting somebody like Bazette
[20:05] <@Golden> Since the MA exists in PI, then it can be inferred that Atlas and the Sea exist as well.
[20:06] <@Golden> Much of what we're taking comes from what PI gives us.
[20:06] <dan-heron> is PI fully translated? in a place we can easily read it?
[20:06] <@Golden> If it's implied to exist, then we decide whether it fits or not
[20:06] <@Golden> The first one is
[20:06] <@Golden> Just search Prisma Ilua
[20:06] <@Golden> Ilya
[20:07] <havocfett> But without them being explicitly defined, you can do whatever the hell you want with them.
[20:07] <dan-heron> I think we could make more sense if we all at least read the first arc of the manga
[20:07] <@Golden> Exactly.
[20:07] <@Golden> Did
[20:07] <@Golden> Won't really help
[20:07] <Thy-Robocop> havocfett: exactly
[20:07] <@Golden> Except for inferring the Grail/Throne of Heroes do exist.
[20:07] <havocfett> Right
[20:07] <@Golden> Though we're not using them
[20:07] <havocfett> What do they /do/, exactly?
[20:08] <dan-heron> They have their quarters in a single place from what we have seen, so they send people to other parts of the world where they don't have much influence
[20:08] <Rhaka> Hm.
[20:09] <Rhaka> Okay, fact collection time.
[20:09] <dan-heron> iirc, it was in the UK, right?
[20:09] <Thy-Robocop> dan-heron: yep
[20:09] <Thy-Robocop> dan-heron: London, British Museum
[20:09] <Rhaka> The museum?
[20:09] <Rhaka> Why in god's name are they in the museum?
[20:09] <Thy-Robocop> unless I mixed up stuff
[20:09] <Thy-Robocop> Rhaka: don't ask me, that's what I read off the wiki
[20:09] <dan-heron> isn't the Clock Tower the Big Ben?
[20:11] <Thy-Robocop> http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Clock_Tower#Clock_Tower
[20:11] <Thy-Robocop> it says they're in the British Museum
[20:11] <@Golden> http://www.mangafox.com/manga/fate_kaleid_liner_prisma_illya_2wei/
[20:11] <Winchester> ...why am I suddenly reminded of another british-based organization invented by the Japanese? In this case the British Library Special Forces...
[20:12] <Rhaka> I'm thinking of Hellsing.
[20:12] <@Golden> That was brought up.
[20:12] <Rhaka> 17th century religious tolerance in the 20th century, horray
[20:13] <Winchester> 21st, wasn't it?
[20:13] <@Golden> yep
[20:14] <@Golden> Will be back
[20:14] <dan-heron> yeah, they don't seem to be a world wide organization. They just have a handful at most of people in other places outside the UK, and there's poor comunication between them if Luvia and Rin only got problems until they did
[20:15] <Rhaka> That's, hm.
[20:15] <Winchester> To the Japanese, the British Museum, British Library and Big Ben are all parts of Buckingham Palace or something like that.
[20:15] <Rhaka> Wouldn't they be more trouble for the UK OC girls than the main plot?
[20:15] <LurkingGoblin> You know, replacing them with BTVS council might actually work beter. The only problem is making them an antagonist instead of good
[20:15] <dan-heron> the thing is that the teams in Japan are the ones making the loudest noise
[20:16] <LurkingGoblin> it sounds like the MA is too small to do jack against the MA
[20:16] <dan-heron> and from PI, they are keeping an eye in Japan because of the cards situation and how the landscape is caising those problems in the first place
[20:16] <LurkingGoblin> MGA*
[20:16] <dan-heron> it's more of they were already focused on Japan when the thing blew up
[20:16] <Rhaka> Okay.
[20:17] <Rhaka> I'll try to sum up my problems with the MA if they are included as the Nasuverse dictates them.
[20:17] <Rhaka> 1) The Association looks down on non-mages and controls them effortlessly through mind rape eyes and Enforcers (these magical ninjas).
[20:17] <dan-heron> Rhaka, have you read the Prism Illya manga?
[20:17] <Rhaka> No.
[20:18] <Winchester> I'm thinking that the Magus Association pretty much has a lock on the entire UK - any dark kingdom that shows its face there gets owned pretty fast, no need for any Magical Girls to awaken. That Sailor V had anything to do there (and that she got away from there) is an anomaly, nothing more.
[20:18] <Rhaka> I'm going by what I'm reading in the threads.
[20:18] <dan-heron> doesn't look that big, we can probably read it in a couple days
[20:18] <dan-heron> same here, and from bits that I did get to read
[20:19] <Rhaka> 2) The Association is based on the idea that magic becomes less powerful if too many mundanes know about it, so they are extremely ruthless, going so far as to rape magic into children.
[20:19] <Winchester> In Japan, on the other hand, Tokugawa kicked out all the westerners for a quarter of a millennium, which means that the MA never got to take root there the way they've done in other places, and the hostility towards foreigners has prevented it since.
[20:19] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: they don't, otherwise my stories wouldn't be possible at all.
[20:19] <Rhaka> 3) The Association is competent enough to be a serious antagonist to the MGA.
[20:20] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: besides, there is this place called Scotland in the UK
[20:20] <Rhaka> 4) The themes of the Nasuverse (urban fantasy with a bloody twirl) aren'T appropriate for a Magical Girl fic.
[20:20] <Rhaka> So, SOMETHING in this list has to give.
[20:21] <LurkingGoblin> all of it. the MA as they stand in nasu. Does. Not. FIT
[20:21] <Rhaka> Or they kill people.
[20:21] <LurkingGoblin> Annoyingly enough we all have said this, but we aren't droping them
[20:21] <Winchester> I still say that what we should be doing is forget entirely about anything that's not in the Ilya manga, and construct our own MA from only what's given in there.
[20:22] <Rhaka> Because they're made for dealing with opponents that are way more ruthless and powerful than some girls in Tokyo.
[20:22] <Rhaka> But SOMETHING has to happen here.
[20:22] <Thy-Robocop> Have I already mentioned the Witness Protection group idea in the thread?
[20:22] <Rhaka> Yes.
[20:22] <LurkingGoblin> why the fuck are they still here when not a damn one of us wants them here?
[20:22] <Rhaka> I did read your suggestion, actually, and think it's a good way to go.
[20:22] <LurkingGoblin> and can we murder the person who suggested we bring them in?
[20:22] <Rhaka> But start it in Arc 1.
[20:23] <Thy-Robocop> aye
[20:23] <Rhaka> And at the end of Arc 2, have some parts of the MA form the bureocracy that first enables the MGA as a formal body to exist.
[20:23] <Thy-Robocop> by the way guys, if you are talking directly to someone else, can you please nametag them?
[20:23] <Rhaka> Because I think the MGA is horribly suited for it. Most of them are still in their *teens* and they are supposed to build enough bureocracy to keep a fortress running and supplied.
[20:24] <Rhaka> Okay, sorry
[20:24] <Thy-Robocop> at least so that I know if someone is talking to me directly or not
[20:24] <Thy-Robocop> I am sure you would appreciate
[20:24] <Thy-Robocop> anyway
[20:24] <Thy-Robocop> gotta go make pasta
[20:24] <Thy-Robocop> pasta dinner
[20:25] <Thy-Robocop> any message to me, please name tag me
[20:25] <LurkingGoblin> @Everyone: can we please drop, or make nearly completely OC the MA. Because I think they really REALLY do NOT fraking fit. At All.
[20:26] <dan-heron> sorry, back. What did I miss?
[20:26] <Rhaka> scroll up
[20:26] <dan-heron> too lazy
[20:27] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[20:27] <LurkingGoblin> lots of stuff
[20:27] <Winchester> Rhaka: We have two series on the books where most of the cast are mature adults already by the time the story starts (Sailor Moon and Sailor Nothing); we have the TSAB and some of the veterans that moved here after retiring; and there were at least one more that could be adding more adults (CCS)
[20:27] <Rhaka> dan-heron, Summary: I think the MA if imported wholesale is self-contradictory and thus something needs to change.
[20:28] <Rhaka> Winchester, adult doesn't mean being capable of setting up a bureocracy.
[20:28] <LurkingGoblin> all of which has served to push me well into the "KILL IT WITH FIRE" opinion of the MA being in this story except as an OC that simply looks like them
[20:29] <Winchester> Rhaka: The TSAB could do it, they might already have procedures for it. And the BSSM cast needs to learn anyhow and may have actually studied it, Usagi was going to be queen of the world after all.
[20:30] <Rhaka> Winchester, that is a good point.
[20:30] <dan-heron> hmm, the more benign MA seems to be good idea.
[20:30] <LurkingGoblin> i agree
[20:30] <dan-heron> THey would still be horrible at trying to work with the modern world, tho, so they won't really be the main push there
[20:31] <LurkingGoblin> I really think we should have the MA as a side threat, and non combat
[20:31] <dan-heron> they just have a base outside Japan and people going around the world without a solid base of operations outside Europe
[20:31] <Rhaka> Yes. For once, I agree with LurkingGoblin's BtVS obsession and form their main way of organising after the Watcher's Council, with different arms, like Atlas or what-have-you.
[20:31] <dan-heron> the MA being a world wide organization that is super competent to be a threat sounds bad from what we have seen in PI
[20:31] <Rhaka> But I must disclaim that I don't really know the Nasuverse much.
[20:32] <dan-heron> we can have the part of the MA that disagrees joining trying to beef up their side by using the emerging Dark Kingdoms, but if Goyan and the Witch are involved, they won't be the true main threat
[20:33] <dan-heron> let's ignore the Nasuverse, Rhaka, and only focus on PI. I'll have to read it all soon
[20:33] <Winchester> What the MA could bring to the table in creating the MGA is to provide legal advise etc - I imagine their contribution to the board as a really old and stodgy British barrister, the kind that is used to wearing a wig to work.
[20:33] <Rhaka> I'm trying to.
[20:33] <LurkingGoblin> @Rhaka: I don't get why it's an "obsession" just because I want it in. the BS with the MA is an obsession, I'm just trying to add something that's cool
[20:33] <dan-heron> only using the Nasu for characters instead of making OC's
[20:33] <Rhaka> LurkingGoblin, because you keep bringing it up without ever considering that you could simply replicate the Council via the MA.
[20:34] <havocfett> Yup
[20:34] <havocfett> MA: America
[20:34] <Rhaka> dan-heron, that is precisely what I'm adovacting, only I'm at the disadvantage of not knowing much about the Nasuverse.
[20:34] <havocfett> Like the million and one city specific CSI spinoffs, except with redeeming features.
[20:34] <LurkingGoblin> Rhaka: not really. the Council gives us a load of actually good characters, premade and everything.
[20:35] <dan-heron> where are the other big bases of the MA?
[20:35] <Winchester> Magus Association (our version at least) on hearing about Akiko, and then Minako: "They did WHAT?" *facepalm*
[20:35] <Rhaka> Alright, first things first.
[20:35] <Rhaka> Do we go with the "the MA is old as in founded around the fall of the Moon Kingdom"?
[20:36] <dan-heron> nope
[20:36] <Rhaka> Okay, so when were they founded?
[20:36] <LurkingGoblin> I thought at best 1500s, or at least that's what I have heard
[20:36] <dan-heron> wasn't around 1700's?
[20:36] <Winchester> Roman or greek era at the earliest. If later, they may be a successor to something founded then.
[20:36] <dan-heron> if they were 10k years old, they would have shaped the world at their liking,
[20:37] <Rhaka> mhm
[20:37] <Rhaka> 'In that case, I propose going by the interpretation by our four people group back in '11 and have them founded int he 16th century, just after the Catholic/Protestant split and the rampant witch hunts.
[20:37] <dan-heron> Roman Greek then? or later on?
[20:37] <dan-heron> sounds good, Rhaka
[20:38] <havocfett> That sounds good
[20:38] <LurkingGoblin> beside SM I think the only "ancient" group even under consideration is the Council, and they range from 1500s to 10,000, depending on what you consider "the Council"
[20:38] <Winchester> Witch hunts started before that, IIRC, but the 16th and 17th centuries were the worst
[20:39] <Rhaka> For now, I would suggest "the Council" to be the group of old men who coordinate the global MA.
[20:39] <Winchester> Council as in Council of Watchers?
[20:39] <LurkingGoblin> Winchester yes
[20:39] <Rhaka> dan-heron, I think you haven't seen it yet: http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=5914107&postcount=2303
[20:39] <Rhaka> It has the MA form in 1525.
[20:40] <Rhaka> Now, considering that it is formed roughly around that time, which cities of the world were powerful enough to warrant a permanent MA seat?
[20:40] <Rhaka> London, obviously.
[20:40] <LurkingGoblin> Rhaka: well, a council. lot's of things have councils, it might get confusing if we add another
[20:41] <Winchester> 1525 is kind of late, Malleus Maleficarum was published in the 1480's
[20:41] <Rhaka> Look at the link.
[20:41] <Rhaka> Malleus Malificarum wasn't that influental for a while.
[20:41] <Rhaka> The witch hunts only really got *bad* when the Church split.
[20:41] <Rhaka> Because nothing said "holier than thou" by burning more peopole.
[20:41] <Rhaka> *than
[20:42] <Winchester> They'd been around for a while before that. There was the Cathar purge a couple of centuries earlier
[20:42] <Rhaka> I'm not sure if Gnostics are really an appropriate founding group.
[20:43] <Rhaka> Actually.
[20:43] <Rhaka> No, I take it back. They'd be perfect.
[20:43] <Rhaka> Gnostics believe that the material world is a creation by the devil.
[20:43] <Winchester> I'm looking at the Wiki article on witch hunts, the swedish version is kind of interesting and the English one will probably be better still
[20:43] <Rhaka> Wizardry and the like could be taken as power gifted by god.
[20:44] <@Golden> Back and caught up
[20:45] <@Golden> I think PI is the result of what happened when the Grail ritual failed.
[20:45] <@Golden> Heaven's Feel
[20:45] <Rhaka> If we're going by the Cathar, the MA was formed just around 1230.
[20:45] <@Golden> Ilya lives in Japan for a reason.
[20:45] <Winchester> According to the Wiki, up until the 13th century (1233 and Pope Gregorius IX) the church would actually defend accused witches rather than seek them out. Unca Greg issued an edict that changed this though, and that's when the whole thing started rolling
[20:46] <Rhaka> Those witch hunts were still different from the "burn them all" the 16th century developed.
[20:46] <Rhaka> They considered magic real, but only punished for actual harm.
[20:46] <Winchester> So, the MA can be formed in reaction to the edict of 1233, with the Cathar affair providing the impetus. And the 16th century would set their policy in stone.
[20:47] <Rhaka> With fines, corporal punishment and the like.
[20:47] <Rhaka> Sounds good. The Albigensian Crusades have just ended and a sizeable group of Cathars could just lay very low.
[20:48] <Winchester> Oh, and the Inquisition was also founded around then, by the same Unca Greg.
[20:48] <Winchester> Now *that's* a decent reason to found a counter organization.
[20:49] <LurkingGoblin> Which is all well and good, but as far as Arc 2 goes, how does this help us? Does it change the fact that the MA, as they stand, don't fit? Does it make them a non combat threat? etc etc.
[20:49] <Rhaka> Don't make the mistake of believing the inquisition to be the Monty Python kind. They'Re a diverse organisation with a lot of changes during their history.
[20:49] <Rhaka> LurkingGoblin, It helps us because right now we're redefining what the MA is.
[20:50] <Rhaka> In the BFP context, so that they're not such a problem the Nasuverse MA would be.
[20:50] <LurkingGoblin> Rhaka: ok then, that's good. now we are getting somewhere. Continue, i need food so i will brb
[20:50] <@Golden> With two different branches.
[20:52] <Rhaka> Yes.
[20:52] <Winchester> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_Inquisition are good places to start, I think
[20:53] <Winchester> Remember, 1430 was when they burnt Joan of Arc
[20:57] <LurkingGoblin> back
[21:01] <Rhaka> So, uh.
[21:01] <Rhaka> <dan-heron> where are the other big bases of the MA?
[21:01] <Rhaka> Avignon.
[21:02] <Rhaka> Novgorod
[21:02] <LurkingGoblin> Canon from what I understand none. but in this it depends on how big we make them
[21:02] <LurkingGoblin> Rhaka: sorry that was at you, forgot the tag.
[21:02] <Rhaka> mhm
[21:07] <havocfett> Oh, since I completely forgot to mentioned this, is there anything up for areas outside of Japan? I know there's Rhaka's snippets, and some discussion about an English Witness Protection Program, and the MA, but what else are we looking at right now?
[21:07] <havocfett> Also: How strictly are you guys genderlocking this.
[21:07] <havocfett> Also: do we have a definite mechanism in place for someone saying 'Do as I want, or I'm taking my toys and going home'?
[21:08] <havocfett> Especially if they are important to the project?
[21:08] <havocfett> Is there a backup FF.net account and editor/compiler?
[21:08] <@Golden> Not yet to the last one.
[21:08] <@Golden> And for Lord Archive, all CLAMP work devolves to me automatically.
[21:08] <@Golden> Since I'm the one mostly working there.
[21:09] * DHX (cgiirc@Rizon-A02872B6.bb.sky.com) has joined #Fantasia
[21:09] <DHX> still haven't eaten dinner yet
[21:09] <@Golden> Thy
[21:09] <@Golden> Robocop
[21:09] <@Golden> :p
[21:10] <havocfett> Hey DHX
[21:10] <DHX> yo!
[21:10] <@Golden> And we've been trying to bring in more MBs
[21:10] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[21:10] <@Golden> Persona/Ronin Warriors came in from this need
[21:10] <havocfett> Right then
[21:10] <DarthArtemis> what need is this?
[21:10] <@Golden> The need for Magical Boys
[21:10] <havocfett> I was asking if things were genderlocked in BFP
[21:11] <DHX> oh yeah, how is that going
[21:11] <havocfett> I was told that the answer was no
[21:11] <havocfett> ....what do you guys have for, say, Africa and the Middle East.
[21:11] <havocfett> Especially large population centers that would be delicious targets for Youma
[21:11] <havocfett> ?
[21:11] <@Golden> Africa is dark.
[21:11] <Rhaka> hah
[21:11] <DarthArtemis> Persona was allegedly brought in because we needed magical girls who weren't blockbusters like Nanoha and the Senshi and so forth
[21:12] <@Golden> That and it gave us Magical Boys.
[21:12] <@Golden> Bonus
[21:12] <@Golden> :p
[21:12] <LurkingGoblin> They are not genderlocked no, it does lean towards MGs more then MMG(Male magical Girls, because Magical boys don't exist)
[21:12] <Winchester> Africa is kept under control by tribal shamans and wise women
[21:12] <@Golden> In rural areas.
[21:12] <@Golden> But MGs there tend to be...
[21:13] <DarthArtemis> Jane and Tarzan?
[21:13] <@Golden> extremely secretive and darker than usual.
[21:13] <@Golden> No
[21:13] <@Golden> Too old.
[21:13] <DarthArtemis> didn't mean literally
[21:13] <@Golden> Though we could hint at it being a part of the universe.
[21:13] <@Golden> And not in skin color
[21:14] <@Golden> But in attitude.
[21:14] <DarthArtemis> large parts of africa are completely wild. lots of places for DKs to start leeching off of the wildlife instead of human life
[21:14] <Winchester> Lol@ African MG's being darker than usual
[21:14] <LurkingGoblin> @Everyone: DA did bring up a good point in the BFP main thread. Does anyone besides me know anything about BTVS. I was bringing it in under the assumption everyone here knew it.
[21:14] <@Golden> very little
[21:14] <DHX> I know a good bit
[21:14] <havocfett> Nope, not really.
[21:14] <Rhaka> I know about it, but am dubious about including it.
[21:15] <DHX> but that is limited to the show itself.
[21:15] <Rhaka> Except as a schematic.
[21:15] <Winchester> DA: DK's need intelligent life to leech from, that's why they turn up in cities - large concentrations of intelligent life
[21:16] <Thy-Robocop> Golden: did you call me?
[21:16] <Winchester> I know a fair bit about BTVS (comes from having a roommate who marathoned all seven seasons and all four seasons of Angel over the course of six months or so)
[21:16] <LurkingGoblin> ahhh that explains things. until I finish my conversion I will drop it then, since it's a moot point until I can show actual work if nobody knows it
[21:16] <havocfett> So places with /enormous/ populations, India and China, for example, will probably have large amounts of them?
[21:17] <@Golden> Thought DHX was you
[21:17] <@Golden> Who are you DHX?
[21:17] <DHX> LOL
[21:17] <Winchester> The bigger the concentration of people in one place, the more powerful the forces drawn to them will be - and the more powerful the magical girls will be
[21:17] <DHX> DeathsheadX on SB
[21:17] <havocfett> Called it.
[21:17] <@Golden> Plus, there is the chaos caused by regular humans.
[21:17] <DarthArtemis> so how did the Senshi and everyone end up in Tokyo and not in Beijing or someplace?
[21:18] <DarthArtemis> the old lei lines excuse?
[21:18] <@Golden> They didn't all end up in Tokyo
[21:18] <Winchester> Tokyo is a lot of people in a small area - Bejing is much more spread out
[21:18] <DarthArtemis> urban japan, same difference <_<
[21:18] <havocfett> Yes
[21:18] <havocfett> Hyderabad probably has a similar thing going
[21:19] <@Golden> Destiny/fate
[21:19] <DarthArtemis> no
[21:19] <@Golden> We don't need to give a reason.
[21:19] <@Golden> Leave it as a mystery.
[21:19] <havocfett> But the Senshi have hte 'Main Character' excuse going
[21:19] <@Golden> Not everything has to be explained.
[21:19] <Rhaka> Hm, aside from the obvious (Cairo, Tunis), Africa has Kumasi - and, I dunno.
[21:19] <havocfett> Shit happens: god knows why.
[21:20] <DarthArtemis> but i'm an atheist! @_@
[21:20] <Rhaka> Because that's where Crystal Tokyo would have been.
[21:20] <Rhaka> Obviously, its shininess shone through time itself and attracted supernatural beings to it.
[21:20] <havocfett> That also works
[21:20] <@Golden> Rhaka: Cairo/Tunis have the same reasoning as Middle East
[21:20] <DarthArtemis> so big-ass lei line convergence on the Pacific rim is as good an answer as any in case we need one?
[21:21] <@Golden> Yeah
[21:21] <Winchester> Maybe spirituality and religious faith helps ward off the dark kingdoms. If you believe in spirits, you'll be looking for them and they won't be able to get you. Japan is quite secular, IIRC
[21:21] <havocfett> Crystal Tokyo acted as a big magic beacon.
[21:21] * Rhaka shrugs.
[21:21] <havocfett> Yeah, sure
[21:21] <havocfett> So Tokyo has a disproportional amount of Magical Girls and Dark Kingdoms
[21:21] <@Golden> In Thread 1, we decided that the Middle East's homegrown magics involve males
[21:21] <DarthArtemis> eh?
[21:22] <havocfett> Oh?
[21:22] <@Golden> When we were arguing about Islam and the way women are thought of there.
[21:22] <@Golden> I remember the important shit.
[21:22] <DarthArtemis> i remember talk about those girls being extra-extra-extra secretive about their identities for obvious reasons but not guys factoring into the equation moreso than usual
[21:22] <Winchester> Didn't they sentence someone to death for witchcraft recently in Saudi Arabia?
[21:23] <havocfett> Yes
[21:23] <DarthArtemis> i remember that
[21:23] <havocfett> Things went /downhill/ after the Ottomans fell.
[21:23] <Rhaka> Saudi Arabia is not the Middle East or indicative of the Middle East.
[21:23] <@Golden> Not in full.
[21:23] <Rhaka> Also, what havocfett says.
[21:23] <@Golden> Some places are more 'liberal' than others.
[21:23] <Winchester> Saudi Arabia is smack dab in the middle of the middle east, though
[21:23] <Rhaka> SA is one of the most socially backward countries there are, right up there with North Korea.
[21:23] <Winchester> And the biggest country in the region
[21:23] <DarthArtemis> oh hey, wait a second
[21:23] <Rhaka> They have a lot of sand. Big deal.
[21:24] <havocfett> After world war I, everything went to shit
[21:24] <DarthArtemis> does anyone remember the Assassin's Creed magical girls that came up when we were talking about DKs possessing government officials?
[21:24] * oof (qwebirc@Rizon-B808BD00.airbears.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[21:24] <@Golden> Yes
[21:24] <@Golden> And ello oof
[21:24] <@Golden> Who are you?
[21:24] <Rhaka> I don't remember them.
[21:24] <@Golden> You had left
[21:24] <havocfett> Oof?
[21:25] <oof> Quine.
[21:25] <@Golden> ok
[21:25] <@Golden> Speak DarthArtemis
[21:25] <Winchester> Use /nick to change your nick to your forum name, easier to keep track
[21:25] * oof is now known as Quine
[21:25] <Quine> 'kay.
[21:25] <DHX> DHX is currently stuffing his face with cabbage.
[21:25] <LurkingGoblin> is there anywhere where just Gamlains stuff is indexed?
[21:26] <@Golden> It's in the Wiki.
[21:26] <@Golden> I can't use Battle
[21:26] <@Golden> It's already registered.
[21:26] <DarthArtemis> i'm just thinking that if middle east magical girls need to hide their identities having a large number of stealth-focused and/or Magical Thief-type girls would make the most sense. basing the AC girls out of that region makes sense to me
[21:26] <@Golden> So I am using the name I'm known by,
[21:27] <@Golden> Also, the magic there is going to be ancient.
[21:27] <Winchester> LG: There's no list of only gamlain's snips, but everything he's written is on the Wiki. You'll just have to check who wrote what you're reading...
[21:27] <DarthArtemis> that works too. Atlas is based in the mountains of Egypt, there's probably lots of magecraft users in that area
[21:27] <Winchester> It might be a good idea to go through the links and tag them for authorship
[21:27] <Rhaka> Cairo?
[21:27] <@Golden> Around that area.
[21:27] <DarthArtemis> i'd need to check a map but that sounds about right, yeah
[21:27] <@Golden> But their main base is in the mountains
[21:28] <DHX> but isn't hiding the default state for all magic girls?
[21:28] <@Golden> Cairo is just the home city.
[21:28] <Rhaka> Sounds good.
[21:28] <@Golden> I mean they take care to hide.
[21:28] <@Golden> As in secrecy is a major part of their nature.
[21:28] <DarthArtemis> they're a LOT more careful about hiding their identities. no transforming in plain sight for instance
[21:28] <@Golden> Most MGs don't actually try to hide themselves seriously.
[21:29] <DHX> so they're more Ninja than Ninja Magic girls?
[21:29] <DarthArtemis> most MGs don't need to worry about being stoned to death by religious zealots
[21:29] <havocfett> You realize that the 'witchcraft' thing doesn't matter in most of the Middle East, right?
[21:30] <@Golden> No
[21:30] <@Golden> But the gender thing does.
[21:30] <havocfett> Yes, but for most of the girls involved, /no-one/ /knows/ /what/ /they/ /look/ /like/.
[21:30] <Rhaka> The Barrier at work!
[21:30] <havocfett> Hijab-Niqab-Burqa.
[21:30] <@Golden> I know that.
[21:31] <havocfett> Hell, depending on what country you're talking about, teh gender thing doesn't matter as much either
[21:31] <DHX> May i just say that the Ninja Magic girls of the middle east would have to be a very recent thing, or rather it was more widespread till recently
[21:31] <Winchester> I can see magical girls in the middle east have extreme stealth as a major theme - no flashy fights, maybe exclusion barriers like in Shakugan no Shana
[21:31] <DarthArtemis> that doesn't mean they're not going to worry about it depending on how strong the anti-female sentiment is in their areas
[21:31] <havocfett> Yes
[21:31] <havocfett> But it would be state dependent
[21:32] <@Golden> Or it could be the result of cultural and past differences.
[21:32] <havocfett> Rather than 'In Middle East, all magical girls are stealthy otherwise lynch mobs. Who cares about country differences'.
[21:32] <Quine> (Is someone saving logs of these conversations? I know there was a log of that one other conversation...)
[21:32] <@Golden> As I said before, magic in the ME would be extremely ancient.
[21:32] <Winchester> I'm logging everything, round the clock
[21:32] <havocfett> Seeing as it has the oldest cities on the planet, yes, it would.
[21:32] <@Golden> So likely there are secret groups that do exist.
[21:32] <havocfett> I have an auto-log up, but it only works when I'm on.
[21:32] <havocfett> Yes
[21:33] <havocfett> But in Tokyo and such, most of the groups didn't know about each other and had vastly different methodology
[21:33] <Quine> (Okay, good. Thanks.)
[21:33] <havocfett> No reason to change that.
[21:33] <Winchester> I have a computer sitting around doing nothing 24/7, so I set it to stay in the channel
[21:33] <@Golden> We aren't changing that.
[21:33] <havocfett> Cool
[21:33] <@Golden> I'm just saying they'd be more careful about their actions because of the possible consequences.
[21:34] <DarthArtemis> i don't think fett is disputing that
[21:34] <havocfett> Yes, that would make sense
[21:34] <@Golden> In most MG shows, they hide either because they want to protect their loved ones
[21:35] <@Golden> Or they can't tell the secret because of circumstances.
[21:35] <havocfett> Yeah, and that would still apply.
[21:36] <@Golden> But in the ME, whose culture is still misogynist in many places, MGs wouldn't be welcome.
[21:36] <Winchester> I'd think there'd be some kind of apprentice system or tradition going on regarding MGs in the middle east.
[21:36] <havocfett> Depends on the country, but yes
[21:36] <Rhaka> That could be a niche the local MA would fill.
[21:37] <havocfett> Turkey, Iran and a few other places are less likely to ostracize them. And that could be one of hte things the MA deals with
[21:37] <DHX> Wouldn't Magic girls also be prized?
[21:37] <havocfett> Yes
[21:37] <@Golden> Atlas as a university of sorts.
[21:37] <Rhaka> Keep Abyssinia in mind.
[21:37] <DarthArtemis> the what now?
[21:37] <DHX> by that i mean even with the misogynist nature, they are still an asset to be used
[21:38] <Winchester> Old ladies do babysitting etc in middle-eastern culture, anyone in the know would be watching their charges even in their teens, and give them a talking to and set them up with a mentor to keep them out of trouble.
[21:38] <DarthArtemis> @DHX: an asset to who, Atlas?
[21:38] <havocfett> With most of the governments in the ME? The army/police force.
[21:39] <havocfett> Recruiting girls and having them kill djinn is one hell of a PR coup.
[21:39] <Winchester> Essentially, the middle east already has an underground magical girl alliance, only it's divided into much smaller bits and very informal
[21:40] <DarthArtemis> that works under the masquerade assuming that they all operate under a single system, maybe something passed down from magecraft
[21:40] <DHX> no, what i mean is for those few who do know whether atlas or some other Society while the men saw women as property, they would still see the girl's powers as an asset to be used
[21:41] <Winchester> Remember, the extreme gender divide in the middle east is not *all* due to male oppression. The women have their own secrets that men are not allowed to know
[21:41] <Rhaka> What is "magecraft" in a BFP context?
[21:41] <DarthArtemis> in my head:
[21:41] <havocfett> Any method of performing magic?
[21:42] <DarthArtemis> magecraft is the native magic system which Earth has always naturally possessed as opposed to things that come from Moon magic or Pretty Cures that come from Heart Trees and parallel dimensions and things
[21:42] <Rhaka> Sounds good.
[21:42] <DHX> i think the point is we can't put the extreme need for secrecy that developed in the middle east down to Misogyny.
[21:42] <DarthArtemis> it's massively degraded from the state it was in in the silver millennium, and things which have been forgotten have been rediscovered and spun off into other traditions like the Devil Hunter clans
[21:43] <Winchester> I was thinking more that magecraft is those magics which can be taught to others, rather than inherent in a magical persona
[21:44] <Rhaka> Doesn't mean that it can't be both, actually. It would make sense to be both.
[21:44] <DarthArtemis> magi are Wizards and magical girls are Sorcerers? <- D&D reference
[21:44] <havocfett> 12:42 DHX i think the point is we can't put the extreme need for secrecy that developed in the middle east down to Misogyny.
[21:44] <havocfett> Yes
[21:44] <Winchester> The Magus Association deals in the study of magecraft, magics which can be recorded and taught
[21:44] <Rhaka> It's something inherent to Earth, so Eartherners would be able to learn it.
[21:44] <Rhaka> anyway, brb
[21:44] <havocfett> So, Magecraft is something replicatable that can can be taught.
[21:45] <havocfett> While other types require choosing, basically.
[21:45] <Winchester> Yes, it's a craft, like carpentry - you can teach apprentices how to join wood, you can teach them how to cast a fireball
[21:46] <DarthArtemis> okay, that brings up a separate question
[21:46] <Winchester> ...what do we call the other kind?
[21:46] <DarthArtemis> not quite
[21:46] <DarthArtemis> Strike Witches
[21:47] <DarthArtemis> the need for the Striker Units is supposed to solve an issue about the military's magical recruits all having different magic systems and compatibilities
[21:47] <DarthArtemis> the Miyafuji Engine solves this by acting as a magical USB port
[21:47] <Winchester> Are we dead set on including them (and Infinite Stratos)?
[21:48] <@Golden> magecraft evolved
[21:48] <@Golden> To answer your inevitable question
[21:48] <DarthArtemis> but if it's not a problem in the first place then what immediate need is there for them?
[21:48] <@Golden> Magecraft can be taught
[21:48] <@Golden> But that doesn't mean all of it is the same.
[21:48] <@Golden> For example, Africa
[21:49] <DarthArtemis> @Winchester: They're there to be the magitech weapons that the military forces of the world will eventually get their hands on. the tech is descended from TSAB hardware
[21:49] <Winchester> Also, you might not be able to mix traditions, either
[21:49] <@Golden> The heart of Africa was impossible to penetrate for many centuries.
[21:49] <havocfett> Wait, how the /hell/ do you fit Strike Witches into a setting?
[21:50] <@Golden> It's an AU.
[21:50] <havocfett> Don't they have this massively Alternate Universe thing that won't really fit in anyone elses setting?
[21:50] <havocfett> Ah
[21:50] <@Golden> Not based on any modern history.
[21:50] <DarthArtemis> same way we fit the Nasuverse in. carve out everything except the magic and the characters
[21:50] <Winchester> DA: But about the only thing that would be kept from the Strike Witches are the Striker units, nothing else
[21:50] <@Golden> Like I said, where we need to alter, we will.
[21:50] <@Golden> Strike Witches has the advantage of being an AU world.
[21:51] <DarthArtemis> The Neuroi work as interdimensional invaders, they're just not going to be able to take over all of Europe for several years
[21:51] <DarthArtemis> not with the kind of firepower we have to throw at them
[21:51] <@Golden> So it can be changed enough to fit the world we're building
[21:52] <@Golden> It's also close enough to fit the modern era.
[21:52] <Winchester> I'm not really seeing what even hundreds of Strike Witches could do that our existing magical girl teams couldn't.
[21:53] <@Golden> Fantasy like ZnT, if it's brought in, will not be connected to Earth but as its own world.
[21:53] <LurkingGoblin> Winchester: Nope, characters and Neuroi as well. As for what they could do, well they are low tier spamable support
[21:53] <havocfett> Hmm
[21:53] <@Golden> Also, the SW are meant to be a way to not be reliant on the MGA
[21:53] <havocfett> Neuroi seem promising as an Arc villain
[21:53] <DarthArtemis> very few of our girls have multi-mach flight speeds, winchester. Witches with aerial units all have that and can function as a quick response team
[21:53] <Winchester> ..no loli cannonfodder, please
[21:54] <DarthArtemis> no no no
[21:54] <DarthArtemis> no cannonfodder period
[21:54] <havocfett> So, Arc 2 will be everyone reacting to the various magical groups resurfacing
[21:54] <havocfett> And the groups reacting to each other
[21:54] <DarthArtemis> they're the elites of the elites representing the military's role of supporting the alliance
[21:54] <havocfett> and maybe panicking
[21:54] <havocfett> A bit
[21:54] <Winchester> That's the only conclusion I can draw from "spammable", thought
[21:54] <@Golden> DarthArtemis: Eventually
[21:55] <@Golden> But the idea I liked was that they were intended to replace the Alliance.
[21:55] <@Golden> By the people who funded it.
[21:55] <@Golden> Not by us.
[21:55] <DarthArtemis> yeah, the DaiGuard approach
[21:55] <Winchester> Can't we just leave the Strike Witches as a parallel universe, sort of like I did with Mai Otome way back in the dark ages?
[21:55] <LurkingGoblin> the SW are not canonfodder, just weaker then MGs on average
[21:56] <@Golden> We could do that too winchester
[21:56] <DarthArtemis> you might say the SW are mass-produced MGs. that doesn't mean they're bad at what they do
[21:56] <DarthArtemis> @Winchester: I see no reason why we should
[21:57] <@Golden> We had a discussion about Parallel Worlds back in Threads 1-2
[21:57] <@Golden> It was decided that they do exist.
[21:57] <Winchester> That means we don't have to mutilate their canon to put them in our story. Magical accidents happen, people land in parallel universe, hang around for a bit and go home, possibly with a lasting committment to help out
[21:57] <@Golden> But it's extremely hard to move through the barriers isolating each world.
[21:57] <@Golden> We don't.
[21:58] <@Golden> Listen Winchester
[21:58] <DHX> break it down. Just what are the story Bonuses for having the strike witches in the story, just what do they bring to the tapestry of battle fantasia
[21:58] <DarthArtemis> tech
[21:58] <havocfett> Is the tech important to the plot?
[21:58] <@Golden> They represent the advancement of Earth as a magical society.
[21:58] <DarthArtemis> the military wants the ability to fight monsters along with the magical girls, whether to replace them or support them
[21:58] <DarthArtemis> let me finish
[21:58] <@Golden> As does the IS
[21:58] <Winchester> I've been hearing about the SW as a stepping stone to Infinite Stratos
[21:59] <DarthArtemis> the Striker Units are a stepping stone along the route to Earth becoming a fully-magical society. magitech weapons are a priority because of our situation as a great big target for every DK around
[22:00] <havocfett> Cool
[22:00] <DarthArtemis> the limitations of those weapons mean that the SWs will never replace the Alliance, they just don't have the necessary output
[22:00] <havocfett> Then maybe they will fit as something developed over the course of arc 2?
[22:00] <Winchester> But if the Striker units are developed by the military, they're not going to end up in the hands of the loli squad from Strike Witches
[22:00] <DarthArtemis> from the Strikers we advance to the Infinite Stratos, which is basically an Earth-made device in the shape of powered armor
[22:00] <havocfett> Rather than just importing them, have them be a project the military begins working on after the Masquerade breaks
[22:01] <DarthArtemis> but because it's based closely on Mid-Childan tech it requires a linker core to operate
[22:01] <DHX> so what i'm getting so far is the only reason for strike witches inclusion is the come with a predeveloped techbase for the authors to exploit
[22:01] <DarthArtemis> that makes the ability to use them very rare, but every IS user has the potential to be like Nanoha
[22:01] <Winchester> DA: Way way way overcomplicated
[22:01] <DarthArtemis> how so?
[22:01] <Winchester> Too much work for what we're trying to gain
[22:02] <@Golden> Failure is an important part of success.
[22:02] <Winchester> Idea follows
[22:02] <DarthArtemis> this is several arcs of stuff we're going through. The SWs would be operating around the start of arc 3. the IS wouldn't be available until 4 or 5 at the earliest
[22:02] <@Golden> The Strike Units are the first successful native-based magical system
[22:02] <Winchester> Militaries of the world sees magical girls, sees TSAB magitech, wants the same
[22:02] <Winchester> They have no idea where to start, and their experiments aren't panning out
[22:03] <Winchester> Accident happens, girls from Strike Witches pop in for an involuntary visit. Local scientists look at Striker Units, gets idea.
[22:03] <Winchester> Rather than build actual striker units, they build IS units
[22:04] <DarthArtemis> Win, I'm not doing alternate universe stuff. you can but the Strike Witches are my project
[22:04] <Winchester> Skipping the striker units compresses our timeline, drops the highly illogical solution of little girls in propeller boots as a serious military project
[22:05] <DarthArtemis> and what did i tell you? Let me finish. you asked a bunch of questions i need to address now
[22:05] <DarthArtemis> can you wait or are you going to keep talking over me?
[22:06] <Winchester> Go ahead, done for now.
[22:06] <DarthArtemis> okay.
[22:06] <DarthArtemis> first
[22:06] <DarthArtemis> the "loli squad" as you put them is put together by the Alliance after the Strike Witches project is scrapped by the American military. I mentioned how they were intended to replace the Alliance by their creators, right? That doesn't go so well
[22:07] <DarthArtemis> the 501st was an international group anyways so an exclusively American project wouldn't have that lineup in the first place. Charlotte might be involved but not the others
[22:08] <DarthArtemis> Now, Havocfett:
[22:08] <havocfett> ?
[22:08] <DarthArtemis> Cobalt has actually already started the very basic groundwork of the Striker Unit in one of Gamlain's recent snippets, using the wreckage of Black Levantine as the reference for his magitech
[22:09] <havocfett> Right
[22:09] <Winchester> Oh yeah.
[22:09] <DarthArtemis> he's eventually going to expand into being a military contractor, so you're right on the dot as far as where the project comes from goes
[22:09] <havocfett> Cool
[22:10] <havocfett> You may want them as a serious competitor during Arc 2, because they work best as a, ah, friendly enemy to the MGA. They're on the same side, but competing.
[22:10] <DarthArtemis> That would work except arc 2 picks up about a week after arc 1. It's way too soon for the project to be in motion
[22:10] <LurkingGoblin> yup
[22:10] <havocfett> Ah
[22:11] <havocfett> How long does Arc 2 take?
[22:11] <@Golden> It takes a few months
[22:11] <Winchester> Gotta ask, though - damned near everyone we've included so far have their own histories nearly completely intact from the source material. The Strike Witches characters have completely incompatible history to ours, though, since the war has been going on for a few years when we first meet them in the story and some of their character arcs result from events of the war...
[22:11] <@Golden> And what are you trying to say DHX?
[22:11] <havocfett> So it won't be showing up until Arc 3 at least.
[22:11] <Winchester> How are you going to write the SW crew so that they're still *them*?
[22:11] <@Golden> Again AU
[22:12] <@Golden> And that hasn't been decided.
[22:12] <@Golden> Remember Winchester, the other Arcs are just outlines.
[22:12] <DHX> the thing is looking through what has been said i wonder is it necessary to use strike witches, or could an expy be used
[22:13] <@Golden> While we've worked a coherent structure for Arc 2 and 3.
[22:13] <@Golden> It's not totally set in stone.
[22:13] <Winchester> I'll say *snerk*
[22:14] <Winchester> Arc 2 turned a one-eighty and then two more during the last 36 hours or so
[22:15] <havocfett> An expy could be used, DHX
[22:15] <Rhaka> I'm not sure where Arc 2 even is.
[22:15] <Quine> Where as in where it's set?
[22:15] <@Golden> On timeline
[22:15] <havocfett> Beyond 'People react to Magical Girls going public. MA exists' we don't have a hell of a lot.
[22:15] <Rhaka> Timeline-wise.
[22:15] <@Golden> It starts about a week after Arc 1
[22:15] <DarthArtemis> @Winchester: Come up with replacement events. Minna losing her fiance to a Neuroi attack becomes her losing him to a monster attack for instance
[22:15] <havocfett> A week after Arc one, and lasting a few months, I think.
[22:16] <DarthArtemis> @DHX: We could theoretically use expies, but why would we when we can just use AU versions of the main cast?
[22:17] <Winchester> The issue I have with using Strike Witches as a homegrown project is that several of the girls are serious aces in their home canon, and it's a major part of who and what they are. How the heck are they going to become such aces in the rather limited Striker units, with all the much more powerful magical girls running(or flying) around?
[22:17] <DarthArtemis> I mean if we followed the canon timeline for SW the entire main cast would be senior citizens by this point
[22:17] <Rhaka> TThat would be an interesting take on the MG setting, to be sure.
[22:17] <DarthArtemis> @Winchester: Because the Witches have their uses as well.
[22:17] <DarthArtemis> Consider:
[22:18] <DarthArtemis> Striker Units in canon SW are based on old WWII planes and have about the same performance
[22:18] <DarthArtemis> Modern units would look...
[22:18] <DarthArtemis> like...
[22:18] <dan-heron> bring in the Tank strikers too, Darth
[22:18] <dan-heron> and hey again, people. Did I miss much?
[22:19] <DarthArtemis> this
[22:19] <DarthArtemis> http://danbooru.donmai.us/post/show/997062/boots-f-14-green_eyes-gun-ogitsune_-ankakecya-han-
[22:19] <Winchester> I get it, Raptor and LightningII strikers
[22:19] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Strike Witches'
[22:19] <DarthArtemis> now
[22:19] <@Golden> They'll be better than what they were in their Canon for one
[22:19] <DarthArtemis> do we have any military nuts in here? anyone know what the top speed of a modern fighter jet is?
[22:19] <@Golden> Extremely fast
[22:19] <DarthArtemis> a couple of machs at least
[22:20] <@Golden> Don't know specifics
[22:20] <LurkingGoblin> mach 2 tops
[22:20] <DarthArtemis> right. that's about as fast as Fate and Nanoha have been demonstrated to fly
[22:20] <LurkingGoblin> and thats pushing it with after burners
[22:20] <Winchester> Round about mach 1.8 in most cases
[22:20] <Winchester> That's an operational rather than a physical limit, though
[22:20] <DarthArtemis> now imagine having a dozen of these girls on any given military base
[22:21] <LurkingGoblin> yup, even the F-22 never goes over I think it was 2.2
[22:21] <dan-heron> of course, with magic helping, they probably can go beyond those speeds
[22:21] <DarthArtemis> they're the quick response force, the first ones to hit the battlefield when monsters attack, while the Cures are roof-hopping their way across town
[22:21] <LurkingGoblin> let me pull a SW clip that actually applies
[22:22] <havocfett> I assume that the villains will scale up to be a comparable force?
[22:22] <dan-heron> well, to be fair, the Cures can cover several kilometers of distance in a second, Darth
[22:22] <DarthArtemis> they're the first line of defense, and they're packing anti-tank weapons -- exactly the sort of thing that mundane forces need to mow down monsters of the week
[22:22] <LurkingGoblin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=se9Md9Gh11w
[22:22] <dan-heron> they problem is they do it on land
[22:22] <LurkingGoblin> watch it
[22:22] <DarthArtemis> okay so some other group of magical girls. point is...
[22:23] <DHX> so to clarify it's a case of ease of development. by this i mean you want magictech developed by earth, and rather than develop a wholly Original tech tree the idea is to import SW and tweek.
[22:23] <DarthArtemis> the Strike Witches aren't really supposed to defeat dark kingdoms by themselves. they're there to swat MotWs because that's where their available firepower falls.
[22:24] <DarthArtemis> stick them up against a Dark General and they start needing to break out weapons that are almost too big for THEM to carry. Eldritch Abominations and Dark Queens are absolutely out of the question
[22:24] <DarthArtemis> but that's not their job
[22:25] <Quine> Didn't one Sailor Moon general get taken out by a plane?
[22:25] <dan-heron> in the anime, Quine, and it was more of running away
[22:25] <Winchester> Jadeite ran, and Beryl turned him into a fly-in-amber
[22:25] <DarthArtemis> That was Jadeite. He got run over by a 747 and was still in good enough shape to limp back to the Dark Kingdom and get killed by Beryl
[22:25] <Quine> Ah, right.
[22:26] <DarthArtemis> in fact he only looked like he'd been roughed up a little in his last scene. dude was rock solid
[22:26] <@Golden> Except even then he wasn't killed
[22:26] <DarthArtemis> *badum TISH*
[22:26] <@Golden> In Jasper's first scene when she returns to the Toy Box...
[22:26] <Winchester> Manga Jadeite on the other hand was incinerated by Mars in their first encounter, IIRC
[22:27] <@Golden> We learn she released Jadeite from his prison.
[22:27] <DarthArtemis> oh yeah, forgot about that
[22:27] <DarthArtemis> anyways, back to SW
[22:27] <Winchester> DA: What you're outlining doesn't quite sound like Strike Witches, though.
[22:28] <Winchester> It sounds like something out of the *future* of Strike Witches.
[22:28] <DarthArtemis> point is, the Strike Witches are the pinnacle of support that the military can offer the Alliance -- teammates. Who tear through monsters of the week like a combine harvester even if they still can't handle the heavy stuff
[22:29] <@Golden> Is that a bad thing winchester?
[22:29] <DarthArtemis> did you watch the series, Winchester? Honest question, not being sarcastic here
[22:29] <Winchester> G: No, but what I mean is that it doesn't really need anything from Strike Witches except the idea
[22:29] <Winchester> And yes, I've seen both seasons of SW
[22:30] <DarthArtemis> okay. so you remember the Jet Striker
[22:30] <Quine> (Something I've been wondering, kind of off-topic. This seems like quite a civil discussion. Why is the tone of the thread so different?)
[22:30] <Winchester> Yes, IIRC it was based on the Me262
[22:30] <DarthArtemis> because we stepped away from the Association stuff
[22:30] <@Golden> Because people take offense to what they read too easily.
[22:30] <dan-heron> because you weren't here the weekend, Quine
[22:30] <DarthArtemis> okay
[22:31] <Winchester> We can yell and backbite and whatnot here too...
[22:31] <Rhaka> You have more time to formulate your reply on a forum and thus work yourself into a rage more easily.
[22:31] <DarthArtemis> so the tech exists within SW canon, it's just still undergoing testing
[22:31] <DarthArtemis> it's not something from the far-flung future of the series
[22:32] <Winchester> Having to keep track of replies as they're coming in makes it difficult to keep your mad...
[22:32] <Rhaka> Anyway, I'm off. Gnight.
[22:32] * Rhaka (RadomirAby@Rizon-4A78D306.dip.t-dialin.net) Quit (Quit: <Spelferal> i dont wish to be boring right now, but i like to fantasize about being boring to ladies in a bar. | <Les_Rosbif> I have to admit, I was pisse)
[22:32] <DarthArtemis> besides, it makes more sense -- relatively speaking -- for the Strikers to be based off of modern aerodynamics rather than stuff from 50 years ago
[22:32] <LurkingGoblin> indeed
[22:33] <Winchester> DA: What I meant was, you don't need the characters from SW to make what you're envisioning, you just need the Striker idea to be developed.
[22:33] <LurkingGoblin> Yes, but we like the characters
[22:33] <LurkingGoblin> why wouldn't we include them?
[22:33] <dan-heron> and we don't want to bother making more OC's
[22:33] <DarthArtemis> what LG said
[22:33] <Winchester> Exactly, but their histories don't mesh with the BFP history
[22:33] <@Golden> Not for this.
[22:33] <@Golden> Again alterations.
[22:34] <DarthArtemis> so rewrite their histories. we can do this. it's not like we're not doing it with the rest of the setting already
[22:34] <Winchester> We'd have to rewrite their characters much worse than we've done to anyone else just to fit them in
[22:34] <DarthArtemis> not really.
[22:34] <@Golden> Rewrite their histories in a way that still keeps them IC
[22:34] <LurkingGoblin> that's easy, hell I'm converting BTVS characters to mesh with MG style. It's both easy and hard, but if done well it can work
[22:34] <Quine> DA:.. but most of the cast isn't getting their history rewritten much at all.
[22:35] <LurkingGoblin> and in the case of SW it's quite easy to convert their backstory to work here
[22:35] <Winchester> My idea was to bring the actual 501st in, no changes - and have them supply the ideas that make the future Striker Project a reality in the BFP-verse
[22:35] <DarthArtemis> it's called porting. i had a lot of experience with this form of character conversion over on Outer Cadia a few years ago
[22:35] <@Golden> I also have this experience.
[22:35] <DarthArtemis> @Quine: and that's exactly what makes it so easy to do
[22:35] <DHX> as an outsider whose never seen strike witches i'm trying to understand which is more important to the story, the tech or the charcters.
[22:35] <@Golden> Porting is the way to make this work.
[22:35] <DarthArtemis> you change very little and get a character who fits the setting while also being perfectly recognizable
[22:35] <@Golden> The tech is probably more important.
[22:36] <Quine> No, I mean most of the other series aren't getting many changes. SM, Nanoha, Nothing...
[22:36] <DarthArtemis> That's because their backstories have already happened
[22:36] <DarthArtemis> as the project goes on shows that debut in the future will have their characters altered by the changes we're implementing
[22:37] <DarthArtemis> Sayaka wanted to become a magical girl so she went into a Breakdown and met Black Devil Girl
[22:37] <DarthArtemis> Future Pretty Cures will have lots of Sempai to teach them the ropes
[22:37] <DarthArtemis> things like that
[22:37] <Winchester> DHX: At it's core, Strike Witches is the best aces of WWII, lolified, and flying around in propeller boots rather than aircraft, fighting an implacable alien enemy that's invaded Europe.
[22:37] <Winchester> And they don't wear pants.
[22:38] <DarthArtemis> you had to bring up the pants
[22:38] <Quine> Wasn't the Sayaka thing a non-canon story? (though I'm not disputing that Sayaka's history will be changing)
[22:38] <DarthArtemis> it might be, but the point remains that people will change along with the world we've created
[22:38] <LurkingGoblin> I would also like to point out that bringing in the SW characters gives us EliaXSanya. That's reason enough to let them in
[22:38] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[22:39] <DarthArtemis> XD
[22:39] <@Golden> http://strikewitches.wikia.com/wiki/Minna-Dietlinde_Wilcke
[22:39] <@Golden> For example her.
[22:39] <@Golden> She would be born in the wake of the German unification.
[22:39] <havocfett> ...why do they not wear pants?
[22:40] <@Golden> Aerodynamics.
[22:40] <DarthArtemis> fanservice
[22:40] <havocfett> What purpose does that serve?
[22:40] <Winchester> ...that's why I want them to be *them*, not expies with the same names the way they would if native to the BFP world... *whine*
[22:40] <havocfett> ....what.
[22:40] <havocfett> You want them to be them because they do not wear pants?
[22:40] <havocfett> Or did you just pick a bad time to say that.
[22:40] <DarthArtemis> the in-universe explanation is that they need a skin-tight or extremely close to it connection to their striker or they'll lose their connection in mid-flight
[22:40] <@Golden> Bad humor
[22:40] <Winchester> No, I want the characters to be the people they are in the anime, straight up.
[22:41] <@Golden> Or manga
[22:41] <havocfett> ....how would that work?
[22:41] <@Golden> And they will be, barring the minor changes
[22:41] <@Golden> To their stories
[22:41] <DHX> so the first earth developed magitech is propeller boots?
[22:41] <Winchester> I love the canon characters too much to want them rewritten to the extent neccessary to slot them in here
[22:41] <havocfett> You can make them essentially the same people
[22:41] <havocfett> But the backstory doesn't work.
[22:41] <LurkingGoblin> what havoc said
[22:41] <dan-heron> they'd wear shorts, or skin tight fabric, Havoc
[22:41] <LurkingGoblin> they will be the same people
[22:42] <DarthArtemis> Minna's boyfriend could be lost in a monster attack rather than a Neuroi attack. Same trauma, same character development
[22:43] <dan-heron> which of them would have the hardest time getting them into the present day?
[22:43] <DarthArtemis> yeah we discussed the pants thing a while back. even maintaining the "skin-tight connection" excuse you can remove all fanservice from the equation just by having them wear a second layer of cloth over their undergarments
[22:43] <@Golden> Mio
[22:43] <DarthArtemis> not that visual fanservice is a big concern in a text-based medium anyways
[22:43] <DarthArtemis> her too. swimsuits work as well
[22:43] <dan-heron> Yoshika's problem was that she had too much power, no? That doesn't sound like a problem that changes if she's in the modern times
[22:44] <DHX> i think i see what Winchester is getting at part of strike witches charm seems to be in the whole setting. to make it work in BFP you have to change their birth, the events that defined their lives and so on. to winchester it's to much of an alteration to the core setting
[22:44] <dan-heron> well, there's that fan story where Top Gun expies have been genderbent into a modern version of Strike Withes
[22:45] <DarthArtemis> Strike Witches' real charm was always in the characters. As long as they're the same people I don't see why changing the setting is a huge deal, and we've established that you can port them into the modern period easily enough
[22:45] <@Golden> Charlotte is actually the easiest
[22:45] <DarthArtemis> @dan-heron: linky please
[22:46] <Winchester> DHX: Precisely. And we actually have precedent for having people who don't fit the BFP homeworld history show up as "visitors" from parallel universes.
[22:46] <DarthArtemis> none of which are canon
[22:46] <Winchester> Mine still are. :p
[22:46] <DarthArtemis> or at least haven't been developed in ages and ages
[22:46] <Winchester> No one has bothered to remove them
[22:47] <dan-heron> Hello?
[22:47] <DarthArtemis> you have a link to that story you mentioned, DH?
[22:47] <LurkingGoblin> I'm with Darth here Winchester. The Strike Witches can fit with no real changes to their character, how they act, etc. just palate swapped as far as backstory goes
[22:47] <dan-heron> sorry, what was the last thing you got from me?
[22:47] <DarthArtemis> the Top Gun/Strike Witches story
[22:47] <@Golden> For example, Charlotte
[22:48] <@Golden> She's essentially a speed freak.
[22:48] <dan-heron> I think it's the same artist you linked, Darth
[22:48] <dan-heron> where a Princess from SA is one of the Witches
[22:48] <DarthArtemis> hmm? oh, I was thinking it was a fanfic, not a doujin
[22:48] <dan-heron> with a snake familiar
[22:48] <Winchester> Goblin: Can they? How do you make Barkhorn into a 200-kill super ace in a setting where she's small fry?
[22:49] <DarthArtemis> she's a super ace among witches. easy. the Alliance doesn't track kills like that
[22:49] <havocfett> Take the SrW route, she's the best among the strike witches and outdoes most Alliance MGs
[22:49] <DHX> if i'm understanding what Winchester is suggesting rather than warp the Strike Witches to fit, he would want the real strike witches to cameo as inspiration to what earth eventually develops.
[22:49] <havocfett> Duh
[22:49] <DarthArtemis> fett has the right of it.
[22:49] <havocfett> But the normal ones /do/ /not/ /work/.
[22:50] <DarthArtemis> very few magical girls can boast that they're ace pilots who can go toe-to-toe with Nanoha Takamachi on her home turf
[22:50] <DarthArtemis> for a minute or two, at least
[22:50] <havocfett> The Strike Witches can be useful, and in my opinion work better if they /do/ /not/ integrate into the MGA and remain governmental forces, akin to an airforce or army, that is, on some level, competition for the MAG
[22:50] <havocfett> *MGA
[22:50] <havocfett> Yet not enemies
[22:51] <Winchester> How do these girls get into a situation bad enough that they can score that many kills, without the heavy hitters from the alliance showing up to take over? That's what I'm arguing about.
[22:51] <@Golden> Of course not.
[22:51] <Quine> DA: Wouldn't Fate be more analogous?
[22:51] <DarthArtemis> we can do both. most governments have their own detachment of witches covering up places the Alliance doesn't have a strong presence. the Alliance has the 501st attached to them as their personal unit
[22:51] <dan-heron> they don't need to, Winchester
[22:51] <@Golden> The 'International' Unity
[22:52] <@Golden> Unit
[22:52] <havocfett> Actually, that would be pretty useful, narratively, Winchester
[22:52] <dan-heron> or maybe she gets that from killing actual monsters of the week on the area she lives at
[22:52] <havocfett> As a 'this is how far the mundanes' have gotten, moment
[22:52] <havocfett> Where the army, which the Strike Witches are a part of, can take on a reasonably serious incident on their own.
[22:53] <havocfett> Without it becoming the first five minutes of a Kaiju attack.
[22:53] <DarthArtemis> hell, if we use the Neuroi we have an incident that the mundane forces can handle by themselves
[22:54] <DarthArtemis> they're canonically vulnerable to normal weapons and can be killed by normal tanks/planes/battleships. the witches are just better at it and have shields and things that give them better life expectancies
[22:54] <dan-heron> the main idea behind the witches was avoid making the military powers obsolete
[22:54] <Winchester> The reason they are super aces in their own universe is because they're the most skilled/powerful defenders of humanity, and they get sent into the fray often. None of the girls are looking for trouble exactly in their own setting, they're embarrassed by their scores.
[22:54] <dan-heron> they have the Witches, even if they aren't the heavy hitters
[22:55] <dan-heron> oh Darth, the story I told you about is the Strike Witches 1991
[22:55] <dan-heron> look for that name over the booru
[22:55] <Winchester> In the BFP verse, they wouldn't be the most powerful - most skilled is possible, but there will always be way more powerful girls who'll be doing the heavy lifting. In BFP, the Witches are backup..
[22:55] <DarthArtemis> oh that's the one i linked to. i thought that was an adaptation of the Persian Gulf War, not Top Gun
[22:56] <dan-heron> Well, the "Main" characters are expies of the main protagonists from Top Gun. Even with the woobie who gets killed
[22:56] <DarthArtemis> aww
[22:56] <DarthArtemis> winchester, no
[22:57] <dan-heron> The Witches are the military main resource when it comes to magical threats, Winchester
[22:57] <LurkingGoblin> Winchester: sort of. But SW are still better are cleaning up weaker enemies in mass then even Nanoha is
[22:57] <DarthArtemis> the Witches are the first ones on the scene. they're the first ones to establish a line and start fighting back whenever monsters start attacking people. they can handle lots of incidents before the heavy hitters will ever show up
[22:58] <LurkingGoblin> and besides the threats are world wide now, having the SW everywhere will mean less work for the heavy lifters, of which there are very few
[22:58] <DarthArtemis> besides, the heavy hitters can only be in so many places at once. Strike Witches deploy *everywhere* because there's so many of them
[22:59] <LurkingGoblin> and most will be saving their energy for fight the next universal threat, not every lowly little invasion
[22:59] <dan-heron> well, at least most SW stuff seems to be largely agreed on
[22:59] <DarthArtemis> yay!
[22:59] <DHX> question. do the strike witches have a specific reason why they are female?
[23:00] <Winchester> ...another thing is that Yoshika for example would never get recruited into the Strike Witches. She went there because that was the only place where her powers could be put to use. In BFP, her healing powers would be made much of and she'd be recruited into something different, maybe she'd be a "real" magical girl in her own right, or go to a mage academy
[23:00] <dan-heron> can't remember if there's one, DHX.
[23:00] <DarthArtemis> Yoshika enlisted of her own will because she wanted to know what happened to her dad
[23:01] <Winchester> Oh. Forgot that.
[23:01] <DarthArtemis> Doc Miyafuji can still "disappear" quite easily depending on circumstances
[23:01] <DarthArtemis> shoot, maybe he's working with Tabane Shinonono or something
[23:01] <dan-heron> So, you two, is there's a reason why it's Strike Witches and no boys?
[23:01] <LurkingGoblin> in series no reason is given, other then they just aren't
[23:02] <DarthArtemis> well in-universe it was because only girls have magic. that doesn't work for us so we'll probably have Strike Warlocks too
[23:02] <dan-heron> the same is true in Infinite Stratos, no?
[23:02] <DarthArtemis> and before anyone asks...
[23:02] <DarthArtemis> SWIM TRUNKS
[23:03] <dan-heron> that's why the boring male harem lead is special, right?
[23:03] <LurkingGoblin> Though I still think the ratio of girls with magic to boys should be somewhere between 100-1 and 10-1
[23:03] <DHX> oh jeez boys flying around without --- sees DartArtemis's post and sighs in relief
[23:04] <Winchester> Speedos and a longcoat.
[23:04] <dan-heron> both guys and girls would be using suits similar to what runners use
[23:04] <LurkingGoblin> except that one show off who wears speedoes and likes to fly really low and flex a lot.
[23:04] * DarthArtemis snickers
[23:04] <LurkingGoblin> and he covers himself in oil
[23:04] <DHX> and shouts youth?
[23:05] <dan-heron> you reminded me more of one of SF4 fighters
[23:05] <dan-heron> he has lots of children too... maybe they emulate dad
[23:05] <LurkingGoblin> crochthrusts at his enemies while shouting "COME AT ME BRO!"
[23:06] <LurkingGoblin> but he's a douch so everybody ignores him
[23:06] <DarthArtemis> now we need to have the Strike Witch equivalent of Jack Churchill
[23:07] <Winchester> Why am I seeing Jaegerjaques Grimmjow in a striker unit?
[23:07] <DarthArtemis> because JC is that kind of badass only moreso
[23:07] <DarthArtemis> y'all do know who i'm referring to, right?
[23:08] <DarthArtemis> that's right, everyone run off and Google it
[23:08] <Winchester> This dude: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill
[23:08] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[23:09] <DarthArtemis> no: this dude http://badassoftheweek.com/churchill.html
[23:09] <DarthArtemis> learn the real history of the world, children: read Badass of the Week
[23:09] <Winchester> Probably same dude, the guy who fought in WW2 eith a longbowa and claymore?
[23:10] <DarthArtemis> yeah, that's the joke. BAotW has hilarious and over-the-top embellishments
[23:10] <Winchester> ...this new keyboard can't spell properly.
[23:10] <DarthArtemis> not that Jack needs them
[23:10] <DarthArtemis> anyways
[23:10] <Winchester> Just the bare facts are badass enough
[23:11] <DarthArtemis> if everyone's winding down on the Strike Witches conversation I'm about ready to punch out. got class in a bit
[23:11] <DarthArtemis> any last-minute questions need answering?
[23:12] <Winchester> Nah, see you
[23:12] <dan-heron> don't think so. I'll be leaving for a while too
[23:12] <LurkingGoblin> i'm good
[23:12] <dan-heron> See ya all later
[23:12] <DarthArtemis> righto
[23:12] <DHX> i got nada
[23:12] * dan-heron (cgiirc@4EB8538D.FBBAA86B.18A8FAFF.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[23:12] <LurkingGoblin> laters you two
[23:12] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[23:12] <LurkingGoblin> so
[23:12] <LurkingGoblin> now what?
[23:12] <LurkingGoblin> dance party?
[23:13] <LurkingGoblin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIOOwhmkoLo
[23:14] <Winchester> We'll see what happens to DA's story - it can't be included unless he writes it. :)
[23:14] <Thy-Robocop> right
[23:14] <Winchester> And it's been a while since I saw him actually write.
[23:14] <Thy-Robocop> I finished off the main quests in Skyrim
[23:15] <@Golden> YAY
[23:15] <Thy-Robocop> so now that that's out of my system
[23:15] <Winchester> Then again, I shouldn't be throwing any stones, I'm stuck at two snippets and one of them is half a rewrite of the previos one
[23:15] <Thy-Robocop> did we reach a consensus on the MA?
[23:15] * Zeruel (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) has joined #Fantasia
[23:15] <Winchester> I think so.
[23:15] <@Golden> Ello Zeruel
[23:15] <LurkingGoblin> as a note the guy I was talking about, the one with the speedos? ya. this is his themesong http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpWsVw9HfBQ&feature=related
[23:15] <@Golden> Who are you?
[23:15] <Winchester> Welcome. You just missed most of the discussion... :)
[23:16] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[23:16] <Winchester> Not to worry, I have logs.
[23:16] <Winchester> Lots and lots of logs.
[23:16] <LurkingGoblin> Actually I'm pretty sure the MA is still up in the air
[23:17] <@Golden> Somewhat
[23:17] <@Golden> But we have a direction now
[23:17] <DHX> what direction?
[23:17] <Winchester> Forward, of course. Is there any other?
[23:18] <LurkingGoblin> up up and away!
[23:18] <DHX> is it following the outline Rhaka posted
[23:18] <Winchester> We're going to write up our own Magus Association, using only what's in Ilya and whatever else we can come up with on our own, and give the rest of Nasu the boot
[23:18] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Magus Association, Relevant Work'
[23:18] * Quine (qwebirc@Rizon-B808BD00.airbears.berkeley.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:18] <@Golden> Not totally Winchester
[23:18] <@Golden> Atlas is still in use.
[23:19] <@Golden> From the Middle East discussion.
[23:19] <Winchester> BTW, we've generated 107kb worth of text since lurkinggoblin came online
[23:19] <@Golden> LurkingGoblin is the project's engine.
[23:19] <@Golden> Without him, we're slow as molasses.
[23:20] <LurkingGoblin> well DA wants them to try to fight MGA, I want them to be a different kind of antagonist and everyone is ping ponging all over the place
[23:20] <LurkingGoblin> also thanks battle
[23:20] <LurkingGoblin> I feel loved
[23:20] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[23:20] <@Golden> That wasn't a compliment
[23:20] <Winchester> Eh, I'm just measuring that way because he was the second person online (I was first, but then I'm permanently in here)
[23:20] <@Golden> I was the first
[23:20] <@Golden> I created #Fantasia
[23:21] <DHX> did the Middle east secrecy issue get defined other than 'because misogyny'
[23:21] <@Golden> Not really
[23:21] <LurkingGoblin> nope it's just that
[23:21] <havocfett> No, it still needs more definition
[23:22] <Winchester> Mm. but for most of today, I (and Infested Nexus, who never speaks) were the only people online. Hence, I was first to log in today, and Goblin was second.
[23:22] <@Golden> Then explain what you mean
[23:23] <LurkingGoblin> who should explain what? I'm confused
[23:23] <Winchester> DHX: The gender divide works both ways in the middle east - the women keep the men out of their affairs
[23:23] <havocfett> Originally anyways. Things have been going to shit for the last 50 years.
[23:24] <Winchester> There are places men can't go and things they can't ask, in the real world
[23:24] <havocfett> Yes
[23:24] <DHX> Okay how about we tie the middle east to the MA's purpose and the masquerade? have the Middle east be an example of where the Masquerade was getting so frayed by openness that it lead to a massive dark Kingdom incident that decimated the Magic girls community and forced it so deep underground.
[23:24] <Winchester> Mainly it's been "going to shit" because a bunch of new stuff to do has been invented, and only men get to do them.
[23:24] <havocfett> Could work
[23:25] <havocfett> And because the progressive forces in the area collapsed with the ottomans
[23:25] <havocfett> Or were surpressed by teh west whenever they showed up
[23:25] <havocfett> For political reasons.
[23:25] <havocfett> See: Iran.
[23:26] <@Golden> Iran was America's fault.
[23:26] <Winchester> Don't forget britain
[23:26] <havocfett> And Englands
[23:28] <Winchester> I'm not sure we really want to go there, but might a Dark Kingdom infiltration be the reason for why it's so bad in Saudi Arabia?
[23:28] <Winchester> As in, an ongoing one
[23:28] <@Golden> Wahabbism
[23:29] <Winchester> Wahabbism founded by an agent of a dark kingdom?
[23:29] <@Golden> Or by a Darkened
[23:30] <@Golden> A human under the influence of a Dark Kingdom
[23:30] <Winchester> The founding agency might have been defeated, but the idea stayed
[23:31] <Winchester> Then again, explaining real world problems with magic in a fictional story is a terrible thing
[23:31] <DHX> actually, don't put the development of extremism down to dark kingdom influence it sets a bad precedent
[23:31] <LurkingGoblin> Why do I have the feeling a few years from now when this project blows up and gets well know we will get flak for having Islam be a dark kingdom plot?
[23:32] <@Golden> Wahabbism isn't Islam
[23:32] <@Golden> At least not all of it
[23:32] <LurkingGoblin> true, it still will look that way to the outside world
[23:32] <@Golden> If we had said Sunnis and Shais are a DK plot on the other hand...
[23:32] <LurkingGoblin> though I can see making certain groups dark kingdom plots making sense
[23:33] <LurkingGoblin> Scientology is one in real life
[23:33] <LurkingGoblin> *shakes fist*
[23:34] <Winchester> Scientlology is not a dark kingdom plot, it was invented by an evil space alien.
[23:34] <Winchester> They even believe the same thing (less the evil part), so they can't even bitch too much about it.
[23:35] <LurkingGoblin> Though it would be amusing and gratifying to take down things like Scientology in our story I would suggest against it. same with any sect of any other religion, it causes roblems. even if it's a sect we make up
[23:35] * Quine (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[23:35] <Winchester> Depends on the nature of the sect
[23:35] <@Golden> Chruch of the Eclipse
[23:36] <Quine> Connection dropped out for a bit. What did I miss?
[23:36] <DHX> talking abour the middle east
[23:36] <Winchester> Taking down something that practices human sacrifice for example wouldn't be a problem
[23:38] <LurkingGoblin> true
[23:38] <Winchester> (Was just reading a manga where one of the characters is a runaway sacrifice of some island cult that tosses a spoiled brat off a cliff every fifteen years to rid their island of all evil)
[23:38] <LurkingGoblin> so that means Scientology is free game! (slavery sacrifice same thing right?)
[23:39] <Winchester> Nah, Scientology exists and they have lawyers. They'll sue for defamation and copyright infringement.
[23:39] <LurkingGoblin> damn it
[23:40] <LurkingGoblin> stupid Scientology and it's cheating
[23:40] <LurkingGoblin> If any religion needs to be exterminated it's that one
[23:40] <LurkingGoblin> *grumbles*
[23:41] <Winchester> Please remember, these guys are real, and they're actually dangerous. Not in the same league as say the mexican drug gang, but still.
[23:41] <LurkingGoblin> true
[23:42] <LurkingGoblin> dodging religion and the middle east was there anything else we needed to talk about
[23:42] <LurkingGoblin> ?
[23:43] <Winchester> Anyone have any ideas for me on how to continue my Mai Otome snippets?
[23:43] <Winchester> I haven't had any luck for nearly a year
[23:44] <Winchester> I have a good opening scene, up until the Otome girls arrive, but from there I run out of steam.
[23:45] <DHX> can't help sorry.
[23:46] <Winchester> I can write the Senshi having ice cream and talking shop, but the greetings and the fight are out of my league.
[23:47] * DHX (cgiirc@Rizon-A02872B6.bb.sky.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[23:49] <Thy-Robocop> on a very unrelated note
[23:49] <Thy-Robocop> what does ZnT stand for?
[23:49] <Thy-Robocop> it's for something AngryDesu sent
[23:49] <Winchester> Zero no Tsukaimma
[23:50] <Winchester> Err, Tsukaima
[23:50] <Winchester> Literally, Familiar of Zero
[23:50] * Zeruel (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:50] * Quine (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[23:52] <Winchester> Basically, failed tsundere loli mage summons idiot earth boy as a familiar. Violence ensues, and tsundere mage discovers she's not a failure, her magic is just different.
[23:53] <Winchester> According to some, all you really need to know is that the female lead in the anime version is voiced by Kugimiya Rie
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[23:55] * Zeruel is now known as Guest46960
Session Time: Tue Feb 14 00:00:00 2012
[00:04] * Quine (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[00:04] <Quine> My client died after the last thing I said and I have no idea why.
[00:05] <@Golden> WTH
[00:05] <Quine> Did anyone respond to me? If so, I didn't see it.
[00:06] <LurkingGoblin> Battle, what's up? and no I don't think so quine, let me double check
[00:06] <@Golden> Nothing
[00:06] <@Golden> Just my client saying I'm typing when I'm not
[00:07] <@Golden> Especially after I pressed backspace once.
[00:07] <LurkingGoblin> ah
[00:07] <LurkingGoblin> and no quine no one responded to you about Fate
[00:08] <LurkingGoblin> at least I think that was the last thing you said
[00:08] <Quine> That wasn't the last thing I said. I guess I shouldn't have assumed the last thing got through.
[00:09] <Quine> Is there anything in the logs about me asking about the paradoxes?
[00:10] <LurkingGoblin> i don't think so
[00:10] <Quine> Oh well.
[00:10] <Winchester> I might have. I've at least thought about asking.,
[00:10] <LurkingGoblin> nope, the fate thing is the last that got through
[00:11] <Winchester> Err, what were you going to ask, anyway?
[00:12] <Winchester> Seeing as I've just read all the BRS-related snippets (again, because they're awesome) and I've read and watched everything there is to see except the RPG in the last week or so.
[00:12] * Quine_ (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[00:13] <LurkingGoblin> you watched both episodes of the anime that are out? I have only watched the first one thus far
[00:13] * Quine__ (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[00:13] <Quine__> This is not working.
[00:13] <Winchester> Yes, I'm current
[00:13] <LurkingGoblin> try mibbit
[00:14] <Winchester> What are you trying to do, Quine?
[00:14] <LurkingGoblin> it works pretty well
[00:14] * Quine (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:14] <Winchester> I downloaded mIRC, have 29 days left on my trial
[00:14] * Quine (cgiirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[00:15] <Quine> Okay, let's see if mibbit works longer than a few seconds.
[00:15] <LurkingGoblin> there you go quine, mibbit should work
[00:15] <LurkingGoblin> it's been good for me thus far
[00:16] <Quine> So. Has a single sentence I've tried to say with the word "paradox" in it gotten through?
[00:16] <LurkingGoblin> just you mentioning that you had asked about them
[00:16] <Winchester> You asked whether you'd asked earlier
[00:16] * Quine_ (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:16] <LurkingGoblin> so what did you want to know?
[00:17] <Winchester> Try again, we should be able to answer
[00:17] * Quine__ (qwebirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:18] <Winchester> ...his connection is on the fritz entirely, looks like
[00:18] <Quine> No, this one's fine.
[00:18] <LurkingGoblin> nah those are the older ones droping out
[00:18] <Winchester> Oh, right
[00:19] <Winchester> Anyway, we should be able to answer, unless it's about something that dan-heron invented - there wasn't all that much *to* the BRS canon until very recently, so he invented a fair bit of the story himself
[00:20] <Quine> I just wanted to know your opinions on the problems I have with the paradoxes.
[00:20] <Winchester> Which are?
[00:21] <Quine> Not enough character development, too much focus on powerful and unique powers.
[00:23] <Quine> (Also a few other issues, but I think those are the major ones.)
[00:24] <@Golden> That's going to be fixed
[00:24] <Winchester> First of all, there really isn't much to the actual canon characters. Mato, Yomi and Yuu are the only ones who actually have a canon backstory and Yuu's is minimal. Black Matagi's and Black Gold Saw's real names have never been revealed,
[00:24] <@Golden> And has been fixed to a degree
[00:24] <@Golden> Black Matagi and BGS have been expanded on in gamlain's snippets
[00:25] <@Golden> And dan has explained things as well.
[00:25] <Quine> dan's explanations have all been out-of-story, and, in my opinion, focused too much on powers.
[00:25] <Winchester> Yes. Gamlains versions of BGS and BM have real names, but they're still inventions.
[00:26] <Quine> gamlain's expansions are good.
[00:26] <@Golden> BDG will be gone into as well
[00:27] <Quine> And the powers?
[00:28] <Winchester> I counted *fourteen* official Otherworld characters for whom we have names and art. Of them, the only ones to have any official story are Dead Master and Black Rock Shooter...
[00:29] <@Golden> Not counting Chariot girl.
[00:30] <Winchester> I think they basically decided that the Paradoxes had the same powers in the normal world as in the Otherworld. We have some idea of what those are for at least three characters (we've seen them fight), and they're... rather destructive.
[00:30] <@Golden> They're stronger in the Otherworld
[00:30] <@Golden> Which makes Signum's victory more impressive.
[00:31] <Winchester> Was Signum pulled into the Otherworld for the fight? I must have missed that. Makes sense, though.
[00:32] <@Golden> It started in the Real World
[00:32] <Quine> No, I mean I think the powers are too powerful, and some of them seem designed to make the corresponding character unique without a good justification for why the character has that power.
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[00:33] <Winchester> The only power BRS and Dee have that they didn't show in the OVA is the ability to manifest in the real world...
[00:33] <Quine> (Also, it seems far too easy to become a Paradox. The "becoming a Paradox is traumatic and only a few people can handle it" limit doesn't seem limiting enough.)
[00:34] <Quine> BRS and DM, sure, but the "cry on your clothes and take control of them" girl?
[00:35] * Guest46960 (~reform_jo@Rizon-7F0C50CB.albq.qwest.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:36] <Quine> Or the "portals everywhere pointing all your attacks back at you and portal-slicing you to pieces" one? (or was it two?)
[00:36] <@Golden> It's more like she takes control of their proto-Otherself
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[00:40] <Quine> That doesn't really make sense for inanimate objects.
[00:40] <@Golden> Everything has an otherself counterpart
[00:41] <LurkingGoblin> alsi something I think alot of people are forgetting, is that this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LEN36ZS9JA is what we are working with. source needs to be remembered carrying on. Not important for this convo
[00:41] <LurkingGoblin> is what we are working with
[00:41] <LurkingGoblin> and for future reference that should be remembered
[00:41] <LurkingGoblin> about the project in general I mean
[00:41] <@Golden> Of course.
[00:42] <LurkingGoblin> not exactly important to this convo
[00:42] <@Golden> Those types of MG shows are ridiculously easy to fit in without controversy
[00:42] <LurkingGoblin> but alot of our plot development has been away from the original concept
[00:42] <Thy-Robocop> ok guys, gotta go now
[00:42] <Thy-Robocop> see ya all
[00:42] <Thy-Robocop> bye
[00:42] <Quine> Bye.
[00:42] <LurkingGoblin> bye
[00:43] <DHX> bye
[00:43] <LurkingGoblin> i just feel a need to poke the project back in the right direction every once in awhile
[00:44] <LurkingGoblin> unlike DA i don't claim ownership, and unlike desu I'm not a main writer, but I still feel protective of the original concept
[00:44] <@Golden> I took over your role in the project for the most part.
[00:44] <LurkingGoblin> I just get antsy when I feel people are forgetting it
[00:45] <@Golden> We haven't forgotten it.
[00:45] <Winchester> Remember: Football stadium full of magical girls transforming.
[00:45] <@Golden> Though things are going to get dark soon.
[00:45] <@Golden> Define football
[00:46] <Winchester> OK, any stadium.
[00:46] <@Golden> Called bluff
[00:46] <@Golden> :p
[00:46] <LurkingGoblin> American! soccer is for girls! (not an insult. I just only enjoy womens soccer)
[00:46] * Thy-Robocop (qwebirc@Rizon-7EAE7BB8.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[00:47] <LurkingGoblin> not that I even enjoy that much
[00:47] <DHX> soooo did i just sit through 4 minutes of hillary duff?
[00:47] <LurkingGoblin> yes, yes you did
[00:47] <LurkingGoblin> and you enjoyed it!
[00:47] * @Golden pokes LurkingGoblin
[00:48] <@Golden> Don't just focus on Western music now
[00:48] <LurkingGoblin> yes?
[00:48] <LurkingGoblin> ahh
[00:48] <Winchester> I just found the BRS OVA, all of it, in HD, with subs, on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3teThu7dPWc
[00:48] <LurkingGoblin> right
[00:48] <DHX> Damnit!!! i knew there was a reason my finger kept trying to hit mute!:P
[00:48] <LurkingGoblin> yes it's been up there like, the whole time
[00:48] <LurkingGoblin> i saw it a year ago
[00:48] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[00:49] <@Golden> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1TAwbGo1E4
[00:49] <@Golden> If only there was an instrumental
[00:49] <@Golden> Without the lyrics
[00:50] <DHX> sooo just what is the original concept to you and where did it stray?
[00:51] <LurkingGoblin> DHX: it was magical girl SRW, and it's not strayed so much as it keeps trying to stray. I just poke it before it becomes a problem
[00:52] <Winchester> Magical girls teaming up to take down all the dark kingdoms in turn was what I was imagining going in. Even stuff like Madoka would be getting a happy end if the powers of some of the other shows got involved.
[00:52] <LurkingGoblin> pretty much, but mostly its SRW with MGs instead of mecha anime
[00:53] <LurkingGoblin> and also in story form and not a game or anime
[00:55] <@Golden> Did anyone even listen to the music I posted?
[00:55] <LurkingGoblin> sounds good
[00:56] <@Golden> DHX: Say something
[00:56] <@Golden> :p
[00:56] <Winchester> Remember the third episode of Mai Otome? The one that starts with the spaceship about to fall on the crowd at the arena? Remember when Arika fell, and Haruka caught both her, *and* the space ship, and tossed it into orbit with one hand and no leverage? That's the feeling I was looking for...
[00:57] <DHX> @LurkingGoblin that's how i remember the original concept, to me it strayed when a lot of the other magic girls basically disappeared and became scenery
[00:57] <DHX> haven't listened to the music yet.
[00:57] <@Golden> see ya later
[00:57] * @Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[00:58] <LurkingGoblin> yeah, I think people forgot that "to many characters" isn't something we should be considering
[00:58] <Winchester> I've listened to some of it. US pop isn't my thing...
[00:58] <LurkingGoblin> we need more
[00:58] <LurkingGoblin> On music: I like a wide range, from us pop to finish goth metal
[00:59] <LurkingGoblin> =P
[00:59] <DHX> to be honest Battle Fantasia has become more about the Magic Girl Alliance than the Magic Girls
[00:59] <LurkingGoblin> yeah a bit
[00:59] <LurkingGoblin> the MGA is important
[01:00] <Winchester> Yes, more girls! But only if we can put them in without mangling their stories. DA's proposed version of the Strike Witches won't be *them* to me...
[01:00] <DHX> on Music i'll listen to almost anything with a good beat. the amount of Jpop and Kpop i've listened to without understanding a word is staggering
[01:00] <Winchester> I like music better when I can't understand the lyrics.
[01:02] <LurkingGoblin> eh' I disagree, I think his SW thing is fine. it meshes better then timetraveling alternate reality SW coming in. And at the same time lets us have EilaXSanya. What mor could you ask for? =P
[01:03] <LurkingGoblin> and for amusement on a slightly unrelated topic http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UDxCGN1Olc
[01:03] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[01:03] <Winchester> Francesca managing to goad everyone into ganging up on her in and orgy...
[01:04] <LurkingGoblin> ohh...oh that would be fun
[01:04] <LurkingGoblin> =P
[01:05] <Winchester> Some of the fanart of her is... well, she looks like she's having a lot of fun at least. o.O *nosebleed*
[01:06] <DHX> i don't know SW so i can't comment on it, but i do see why Winchester is invested in the real deal. turn it around a bit and imagine how DA would react if we completely shifted the history of Madoka? DA would be spitting nails
[01:07] <LurkingGoblin> true, but SW is a bit different. I mean I love SW, but it was much greater in potential, then it what was actually there
[01:07] <Winchester> DA hates PMMM, he'd like nothing better than to use the rest of the girls to trash Kyubei's whole day.
[01:07] <LurkingGoblin> also that
[01:08] <DHX> he hates PMMM but he'll scream blue murder if people mess with the set up.
[01:08] <DHX> i don't mean butterflies i mean the core characters
[01:09] <DHX> the setting
[01:10] <LurkingGoblin> true, but with SW it's either modify it, or not have it at all
[01:10] <LurkingGoblin> its set in the 1940s
[01:10] <DHX> @LurkingGoblin exactly.
[01:11] <LurkingGoblin> in a world where magic is known and the countries have different names
[01:11] <Winchester> Ninjad
[01:12] <havocfett> Honestly, I can't think of a good reason for the PMMM arc, as DA wants it, to work
[01:12] <Winchester> I was never happy with Lord Archive's version of bringing in the Otome crew into BFP, because he changed so much.
[01:12] <DHX> Winchester's bone of contention is that all the other MG stuff has essentially been kept intact, it's kind of unfair to modify SW to fit.
[01:13] <havocfett> But you can't bring in SW without major modification
[01:13] <Winchester> DHX exactly
[01:13] <havocfett> So the options are 'drop it or change it'
[01:13] <DHX> actually you can
[01:14] <havocfett> How?
[01:14] <DHX> but it relies on the alternate reality factor
[01:14] <DHX> have the canon SW inspire BFP's SW
[01:14] <LurkingGoblin> eh' and the means time travel AND alternate reality
[01:14] <DHX> via an accidental crossover
[01:14] <LurkingGoblin> and that's way to much damn work for one series
[01:15] <DHX> no just alternate reality.
[01:15] <LurkingGoblin> even if it inspired this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5x4AZlZ2dw&feature=fvsr
[01:15] <LurkingGoblin> yes it does, it's set in the 1940s
[01:15] <DHX> rull of alternate realities is not all run on the same time scale
[01:15] <Winchester> No time travel involved if the alternate realities have a constant sixty-year offset or something
[01:15] <havocfett> But it also strips away the witches role in the story.
[01:15] <LurkingGoblin> eh' still
[01:16] <LurkingGoblin> I like the idea of bringing them in wholesale
[01:16] <Winchester> But what role do the witches *have* in story?
[01:16] <LurkingGoblin> it means we get SW, rather then waiting several years and then getting Stratos
[01:16] <LurkingGoblin> it's been explained several times
[01:16] <Winchester> If it's a military project, forget using underaged girls
[01:17] <LurkingGoblin> rapid reaction large numbers and thus wide area coverage
[01:17] <Winchester> Just forget it, they'd never ever allow it in a project under their own control
[01:17] <havocfett> Currently? The witches serve to show the reaction and adaptation of Earth Militaries to the Masquerade breaking
[01:17] <havocfett> And to provide a military rapid reaction force to attacks
[01:17] <Winchester> We can have witches just fine, but not the *strike witches characters* without mangling them
[01:18] <LurkingGoblin> I'm with DA and bringing them in as he has suggested. yes it SHOULD mean that they are older people, but that's no fun. so we bring in the originals
[01:18] <Winchester> And mangling whatever still passes for military procedure
[01:19] <LurkingGoblin> the system of magic the SW use is only useable by girls between the ages of (forget the youngest) and 20-25 tops. that's why they are young girls in strikers
[01:19] <havocfett> Yup
[01:20] <havocfett> (Note: I am going by the wiki only)
[01:20] <LurkingGoblin> it provides a large, but not mooky, force for combating low-mid end threats
[01:20] <LurkingGoblin> and it provides it EVERYWHERE
[01:20] <DHX> and why is that hard coded?
[01:20] <LurkingGoblin> They will be faster then in series due to better tech so even wider area coverage
[01:21] <Winchester> And the moment they run into a top-tier threat by accident most of them will be gone before they know what hit them.
[01:21] <havocfett> Yes
[01:21] <LurkingGoblin> not true, they will be in trouble, but they are dodgier then any other group of MGs
[01:21] <LurkingGoblin> and tankier then most as well
[01:21] <LurkingGoblin> they simply lack offense
[01:21] <Winchester> Yeah, they're dodgy alright :grumble:
[01:22] <DHX> I mean lets be frank, you plan to import the tech, but change it to more advanced, you plan to re-gig the SW's lives, why can't the age line be Changed?
[01:23] <LurkingGoblin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhkRDVMYZ80
[01:23] <Winchester> Magic doesn't go away at 25 in the BFP.
[01:23] <LurkingGoblin> dodgyness
[01:23] <LurkingGoblin> yes but their system might
[01:23] <LurkingGoblin> we have lots of different systems
[01:24] <LurkingGoblin> which act differently
[01:24] <LurkingGoblin> some can do things others could never hope to
[01:25] <Winchester> Who'd teach a girl a magic system that'll burn their power out at 25, just so they could use a striker pack?
[01:26] <LurkingGoblin> idk maybe a bunch of girls who want to help their idols save the day, but otherwise lack to power to do jack all against a mook monster?
[01:27] <DHX> LurkingGoblin the *Might* is the important part. since the setting is being messed with there is no reason the age can not be messed with.
[01:27] <Winchester> I don't know, I'm just connecting "burning your magic out" with the effects the same thing has in the Wheel of Time.
[01:27] <havocfett> Yes
[01:28] <havocfett> This isn't locked down in stone
[01:28] <havocfett> Or whatever
[01:28] <havocfett> Look at what's happening to Arc 2
[01:28] <havocfett> After gratuitous kicking of heads
[01:29] <DHX> the sad thing is, i have no investment in SW's and it's place in BFP
[01:29] <LurkingGoblin> I want SW in as DA does
[01:29] <DHX> i'm just saying i can see where Winchester is coming from
[01:29] <LurkingGoblin> it works, don't fic it
[01:29] <LurkingGoblin> fix*
[01:30] <Winchester> Also, if piloting a Striker burns out your powers, the MGA would shut them down no matter what the benefits they provided.
[01:30] <DHX> point.
[01:31] <LurkingGoblin> I can sort see where he is coming from too. but it's a very strict view, and I don't see why the girls would have to be different. They can keep the traits we like and not be from an AU
[01:32] <LurkingGoblin> And no not a point. It burns out naturally
[01:32] <Winchester> That would be one point where the MGA could have an exchange with the (original) witches - the MGA learns that their visitors expect to be rendered magic-less by 25, and attempt to figure out a way to prevent it.
[01:32] <LurkingGoblin> did you watch the english dub?
[01:32] <DHX> Why would magic burn out naturally at 25 of all ages?
[01:32] <LurkingGoblin> its somewhere between 20-25 in the series
[01:33] <DHX> but you're not importing the series over
[01:33] <LurkingGoblin> possibly because thats when we start dieing, as opposed to growing
[01:33] <DHX> you picking and choosing from the series to make it fit BFP
[01:33] <LurkingGoblin> true
[01:34] <LurkingGoblin> the problem being the Win has a point, if the governments can make strikers without girls, we lose every character from SW
[01:34] <LurkingGoblin> we want those characters
[01:34] <LurkingGoblin> therefore we make excuses amd we have them
[01:35] * Guest46960 is now known as Zeruel
[01:35] <havocfett> Do we want those characters?
[01:35] <havocfett> For a reason besides 'throw them in'?
[01:35] <LurkingGoblin> yes we do, at least DA and I do
[01:35] <Winchester> And if they can't make strikers without girls, then the MGA won't stand for it, so we lose the strikers
[01:35] <DHX> DA and Lurking seem to want them
[01:36] <DHX> let me reframe the arguement.
[01:36] <LurkingGoblin> besides "throw them in" they are pretty cool characters
[01:36] <DHX> I like Transformers.
[01:36] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[01:36] <Winchester> I want them too, but they have to make *sense*. They can't be made to do so in a 2010-2020 setting
[01:36] <DHX> To me Transformers are robotic beings from cybertron
[01:37] <DHX> if some one was to say to make them relevant to the new story they came from Gobertron
[01:37] <DHX> i would be spitting nails
[01:37] <DHX> because to me the setting is important
[01:38] <Winchester> Strikers work in their home setting because they're the only option, and that's just how things are. In BFP, they're *not* the only option, and the way they work would horrify several of the other options - not the least of which would be the public.
[01:39] <LurkingGoblin> I get what you are saying. but 2 out of three people who like the series are fine with the changes, why should we capitulate to the one and cut the series entirely, and thus drop Stratos, or have to rework it entirely?
[01:39] <LurkingGoblin> and no win they are not horrifying
[01:39] <LurkingGoblin> it burns out naturaly and its their choice
[01:39] <DHX> and that is in their Original setting
[01:40] <Winchester> Stratos can be kept without the Strikers. Stratos doesn't have a blatantly AU setting to start with, and is set in the future.
[01:40] <havocfett> Yeah
[01:40] <LurkingGoblin> how exactly is that worse or anywhere near as bad as our other girls, who often have NO choice in the matter?
[01:40] <havocfett> Just 'Power Armor that runs off of Magic' is no real big deal.
[01:40] <havocfett> Strikers isn't particularly morally questionable, as it's a volunteer military project
[01:41] <LurkingGoblin> true, but our ideas as they stand with Stratos involve strikers comeing first, and have for a while. why exactly, should we change them now?
[01:42] <Winchester> Because for the other girls (excepting PMMM), they finish their series and keep growing. Then they become powerhouse mentors for the next generation, not mundanes.
[01:42] <Winchester> The only change to what has been written would be that the prototype Cobaltco is working on is for the IS unit, not the striker
[01:42] <LurkingGoblin> and the SW become aces looked up to by future witches, I fail to see your point.
[01:43] <havocfett> Yeah
[01:43] <DHX> LurkingGoblin isn't the whole point that nothing in the later arc's is set in stone, that it can be changed?
[01:43] <Winchester> ...and objects of pity by all the "real" magical girls who get to keep their powers.
[01:43] <LurkingGoblin> they only lose strikers and shields
[01:44] <LurkingGoblin> they can still use their innate ability
[01:44] <LurkingGoblin> as evidenced by the main characters mother and grandmother using healing magic
[01:44] <LurkingGoblin> albeit weaker then when at their prime, but it was there
[01:45] <LurkingGoblin> I'm not seeing anything but possitives to bringing in the SW
[01:45] <havocfett> And most of hte existing Magical Girl types are kind of exclusive
[01:45] <Winchester> It would be different perhaps if the problem was that their power would keep growing to the point where strikers wouldn't be able to handle them...
[01:45] <havocfett> You get chosen are you're unlucky
[01:46] * havocfett (~Mibbit@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[01:47] <LurkingGoblin> bringing in the SW also gives us a very nice enemy. the Neruoi(sp)
[01:47] <Winchester> If I remember right, Yoshika lost her powers entirely, healing and all, and went on to become a regular doctor instead.
[01:47] <LurkingGoblin> errr what now?
[01:47] <LurkingGoblin> i saw both seasons, that was never mentioned?
[01:48] <Winchester> She sacrificed all her magic to that damned sword to finish off the final enemy in S2
[01:48] <Winchester> She never got her magic back
[01:48] <LurkingGoblin> that's...different
[01:48] <LurkingGoblin> that was "ALL OF MY MAGIC I THROW AT YOU!"
[01:48] <LurkingGoblin> that would end ANY MG's magical carrear
[01:48] <Winchester> Yeah, but it was still an awful ending.
[01:49] <LurkingGoblin> eh' as I said SW was more potential then actual good
[01:49] <Winchester> But really, the stop at 25 thing is a typical Japanese "go home and be a housewife" thing
[01:50] <LurkingGoblin> and that's what SRW is all about, taking something "meh" and making it "OMG this is the best thing I have ever SEEN!"
[01:51] <LurkingGoblin> Well yeah a bit. There are biological excuses for it. But it's really all that lets us have the characters in
[01:51] <LurkingGoblin> if they can be older the millitary won't use younger ones
[01:52] <DHX> So, let see if you two truly understand each other. Winchester's Gripe boils down to "all the changes Make the SW's less than top Teir that they represent in their universe! correct?
[01:52] <LurkingGoblin> so we have to age restrict
[01:52] <Winchester> Not really, DHX
[01:52] <DHX> so Explain
[01:53] <DHX> explain the core of your arguement
[01:54] <LurkingGoblin> Winchester from what I get, thinks that we are making them hollow expys of the characters in the original
[01:54] <LurkingGoblin> he wants all or nothing
[01:54] <Winchester> Strike Witches is the story of a group of aces (and a tagalong or two), who've risen to the top not through seeking combat but through having been thrown into it so often that it's second nature.
[01:55] <DHX> LurkingGoblin is this true?
[01:55] <Winchester> The situation in BFP is such that that should have no possibility of happening.
[01:57] <Winchester> The 501st was actually sent out on *suicide missions* in their own story.
[01:57] <LurkingGoblin> ummm.. Winchester...no go back and rewatch the series. please. it's a group of soldiers(pantless fanservicey yuri girl soldiers, but soldiers still) who are fighting a desperate war against an otherwise unstopable enemy
[01:57] <LurkingGoblin> they are ordered to fight, not willy nilly end up fighting
[01:57] <LurkingGoblin> they join because they want to save the world
[01:57] <Winchester> Yes. How the heck does it get that desperate with all the super-powerful magical girls there to just punt the big stuff into the next dimension?
[01:58] <LurkingGoblin> or in some cases have a personal vendetta against the enemy
[01:58] <LurkingGoblin> in BFP they join because they want to help
[01:58] <LurkingGoblin> hell, if this were real and I had any level of power I would be out there fighting
[01:59] <LurkingGoblin> and I'm a lazy asshole collage drop out
[02:00] <Winchester> They get damned good because the fighting is desperate. With the MGA in full swing, what could pose enough of a threat that the fighting remains desperate long enough for the SW characters to become who they are?
[02:00] <LurkingGoblin> they can't be everywhere all the time
[02:00] <LurkingGoblin> and they can't come running every attack
[02:00] <LurkingGoblin> the locals HAVE to hold their own as much as possible
[02:01] <LurkingGoblin> The SW can do the same here they did in their original universe
[02:01] <Winchester> Enough attacks in one place, and they'll be sending someone to deal with the root cause. That won't take years of fighting.
[02:01] <LurkingGoblin> the only difference. they won't LOSE THE WHOLE PLANET AS IN CANON!
[02:02] <DHX> LurkingGoblin Calm.
[02:02] <LurkingGoblin> not true, the MGA isn't going to roll out Usagi and Nanoha every time theres a dark kingdom attack
[02:03] <LurkingGoblin> @DHX: sorry
[02:04] <LurkingGoblin> and why are you arguing. you like the characters of SW. if you win this they are cut from the project
[02:04] <DHX> as i've said i have no investment in SW's and i've been arguing Winchester's view because i can see it. but i have to ask you both. if you're at an impasse have the two of you searched for a compramise
[02:04] <Winchester> Because I don't think the way they're being written into it makes any sense
[02:05] <LurkingGoblin> @DHX: well... no we haven't
[02:05] <LurkingGoblin> but it's still 2 vs 1
[02:06] <LurkingGoblin> just saying
[02:06] <LurkingGoblin> *pouts*
[02:06] <DHX> it shouldn't just be about 2 verses 1
[02:07] <LurkingGoblin> the problem is that his way it's either nothing or AU. and AU just...doesn't work
[02:07] <LurkingGoblin> it's a can of worms we don't want
[02:08] <LurkingGoblin> it's "oh hey they did it with SW that mean we can (insert terrible crossover idea here)"
[02:08] <LurkingGoblin> I don't want the AU door opened
[02:08] <LurkingGoblin> that way madness lies
[02:08] <DHX> now then Winchester is that the way you see it? either AU or nothing?
[02:09] <Winchester> Problem number one is the age limit. It doesn't mesh with anything else in the project, and the moment the brains in the project found out they'd start looking for a fix. If it's unfixable, it would be quite rare indeed, because we've never heard of a degenerative magic disease that couldn't be fixed that didn't have an external reason.
[02:10] <LurkingGoblin> hate to interrupt but I need to take a shower, you goes gonna be around for awhile?
[02:10] <LurkingGoblin> guys*
[02:10] <Winchester> If the condition is rare, there won't be enough girls to form very many units.
[02:10] <Winchester> Yeah, I'll be on for another hour or so
[02:11] <DHX> yeah up till 2 am at least
[02:11] <LurkingGoblin> kk and for a note if we do bring them in they use a different system of magic so... yeah that's not a problem. it's just a limitation. not a disease.
[02:12] <LurkingGoblin> it's like trying to fix a system that can't teleport
[02:12] <LurkingGoblin> it can't do it, and some can't fly
[02:12] <LurkingGoblin> SW just gets weak early
[02:13] <LurkingGoblin> admittedly that's the most cuttable thing in the SW stuff
[02:13] <Winchester> Ami and Shamal would still be researching the fuck out of it to see if it could be fixed, and they're not going to let go in a hurry
[02:14] <LurkingGoblin> the only problem is then figuring out why the main cast is here when the millitary would use older people, or rather why all but a few are here, since a couple are 18
[02:15] <Winchester> How old is the youngest member, and how old is the oldest?
[02:15] <LurkingGoblin> My original idea for bringing them in was as a project by a side group, funded by Jail from off planet, and the Gunslinger girls were going to be there as well
[02:15] <LurkingGoblin> which would cut the millitary out
[02:15] <LurkingGoblin> but you still have why the world at large would except them
[02:15] <LurkingGoblin> as a problem
[02:16] <DHX> you know i've been sitting here and i already thought of one solution/compromise however it might not be what you're looking for
[02:16] <Winchester> Oh bloody hell the reaction of the MGA to the existance of the canon Gunslinger girls would not be pretty at alll
[02:17] <DHX> and LurkingGoblin you original plan kind of intersects it.
[02:17] <LurkingGoblin> youngest was...12 or 13 I think. 14 at the oldest, 12 at the youngest. But the oldest I think was 20
[02:17] <Winchester> That was Yoshika, right?
[02:17] <Winchester> Damn, that's a bit much
[02:18] <LurkingGoblin> yeah she couldn't have been over 14
[02:18] <Winchester> If she'd been fifteen in the series, then adding three years to everyone's ages would still leave them cute, but everyone would be of age to be in the military at least
[02:19] <LurkingGoblin> @DHX talk about it with Winchester, i'm gonna go take a shower. will think about it while i'm in there...in a you know...non dirty way. =P
[02:19] <DHX> K.
[02:19] <Winchester> Lucchini in an orgy.
[02:20] <LurkingGoblin> *falls over with nosebleed* Damn it. STOP THAT!
[02:20] <Winchester> Glad to be of service.
[02:21] <DHX> the Strike witches project produced by the governments did not produce the strike witches girls, the military was using more adult subjects, however the rate of success and power was not as high as they hoped. a rogue element, Jail or whoever investigating why so many young kids become mages/magic girls starts a side project
[02:22] <DHX> the side project takes the girls and runs the Canon Strike witches universe as a simulation
[02:23] <DHX> when the girls are freed they have their canon attitude and abilities but go directly into the MGA
[02:23] <Winchester> ...you know, that works for me.
[02:24] <DHX> while the military still runs their adult Strike witches project
[02:25] <Winchester> It'd be kind of dark though, in that whatever personalities the girls had before being kidnapped would be gone.
[02:26] <DHX> ah, but here's a beauty.
[02:26] <Winchester> ....their real backstories are only slightly different from Jail's edited versions?
[02:27] <DHX> the simulation runs in part off real experiences. so the girls are both the tweaked universe versions and the canon versions
[02:27] <DHX> yep.
[02:27] <Zeruel> Does the simulation involve a necromantic ritual lathering a woman's breasts with butter?
[02:28] <DHX> i think i've seen that animated Gif
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[02:30] <Winchester> Good morning
[02:30] <DHX> hey Dan!
[02:30] <DHX> i haven't even been to bed yet!
[02:31] <Winchester> I'm posting a bit of a summary of what we've been discussing just now to the forum, in the middle of writing it now
[02:31] <dan-heron> hey you two.
[02:32] <dan-heron> Just how much have we done today, Winchester?
[02:34] <DHX> where did you leave off?
[02:36] <Winchester> You don't want to know, the chat log is 126K since LurkingGoblin came online. That was something like 7 hours ago
[02:36] <dan-heron> after the main discussion of the Strike Witches was dying down
[02:36] <DHX> it flared back up
[02:37] <dan-heron> what about?
[02:37] <LurkingGoblin> back
[02:37] <dan-heron> hey Goblin
[02:37] <DHX> hey LurkingGoblin
[02:38] <LurkingGoblin> and Winchester what are you smoking? because DHX's idea(no offense) does the EXACT same thing DA's does, only it involves mind rape...
[02:38] <LurkingGoblin> how is his better? besides having adult strike witches?
[02:39] <LurkingGoblin> I mean it'd good but still, it's just different
[02:39] <LurkingGoblin> it still changes them from canon
[02:39] <dan-heron> oh, I take it it had something to do with that?
[02:39] <Winchester> But not quite so much, and it doesn't require an idiot ball for the MGA
[02:40] <dan-heron> what idiot ball are we talking about?
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[02:40] <LurkingGoblin> neither does DA's
[02:40] <dan-heron> scratch that, what are we talking about?
[02:40] <DHX> basically Winchester has an issue with the import
[02:40] <Winchester> explanation incoming:
[02:41] <LurkingGoblin> long story shirt, DA and I want strike witches to be basically Expys that act, and think, like the orginals
[02:41] <DHX> there are to many issues in his mind that negate the SW's
[02:41] <LurkingGoblin> Winchester wants the originals
[02:41] <LurkingGoblin> and won't take no for an answer
[02:42] <dan-heron> weren't we all happy with just modifying their backgrounds to fit?
[02:42] <Winchester> Well, I will have to eventually, because I'm not the one writing. I'm looking for a different way
[02:42] <LurkingGoblin> we were, he isn't
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[02:42] <LurkingGoblin> wb battle
[02:43] <Golden> thanks
[02:43] <Golden> What's being discussed?
[02:43] <dan-heron> that what I want to know =D
[02:43] <LurkingGoblin> theres a heated debate about SW
[02:43] <Winchester> The problem I'm having is that I can't come up with any situation desperate enough to leave the girls withering on the vine for several years, which is what it took to make them who they were in the series
[02:43] <LurkingGoblin> I disagree
[02:43] <LurkingGoblin> they were just that talented
[02:44] <LurkingGoblin> and can have plenty of desperate fights in BFP
[02:44] <DHX> I came up with a compromise
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[02:44] <Golden> You do know...
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[02:45] <Golden> SW is going to actually appear in Arc 3 right?
[02:45] <LurkingGoblin> you over estimate how much the MGA can do without help, the SW can fill a vital gap in the MGA's defence coverage
[02:45] <LurkingGoblin> that too
[02:45] <Golden> Arc 2 is just the beginning
[02:45] <Golden> The characters themselves won't be the first.
[02:45] <Golden> Except maybe Mio.
[02:46] <Winchester> Yes, they were talented. They were also together for some time before Yoshika joined them (IIRC), and the originals never had any help from anyone more powerful
[02:47] <LurkingGoblin> I'm aware the problem being discussed is that what Winchester want's can't really happen, and if his complaints win then we lose the SW entirely
[02:47] <Winchester> Because there was no one more powerful
[02:48] <LurkingGoblin> so I would like it if he kindly stopped shooting holes in DA and my boat.
[02:48] <DHX> basically since Winchester is set on having the SW's have the canon experience i suggested run it as a sim
[02:48] <Winchester> The other complaint I have was about the ages, and how the military would do things. They'd never use young teens in a combat role, not even in desperation.
[02:48] <Golden> You do also know that we already have a solution.
[02:49] <LurkingGoblin> yes there are holes but DA should be on to defend them
[02:49] <LurkingGoblin> considering he's writing the SW stuff
[02:49] <LurkingGoblin> I would also like to help him, but we haven't had a chance to talk yet
[02:49] <Golden> We acknowledged that other universes do exist.
[02:50] <DHX> Lurking refuses to consider other universes
[02:50] <LurkingGoblin> eh' the AU idea was brought up
[02:50] <Golden> But it's extremely difficult to successfully penetrate the barriers
[02:50] <DHX> by me.
[02:50] <LurkingGoblin> I dislike it rather a lot
[02:50] <Winchester> DHX suggested doing it as an illegal sim, but that involves brainwashing the girls in order to accept the sim as real. It would work for making the characters who they were in the show exactly, though. I can tentatively accept that.
[02:51] <Winchester> My own suggestion was to just up the ages of the characters until they're reasonable for an actual military
[02:51] <DHX> see the truth is i don't care about SW's i'm just trying to resolve the conflict
[02:51] <Winchester> The problem with that is that Yoshika was way way young, and you'd need to add six years to everyone's ages.
[02:52] <dan-heron> yeah, you guys are over complicating things
[02:52] <LurkingGoblin> no winchester is
[02:52] <LurkingGoblin> DA has his ideas, I like them
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[02:53] <Golden> Winchester: You do realize underaged girls are the most likely to tap into their magic the easiest right?
[02:53] <Golden> The very reason Incubators target such girls is because of this.
[02:53] <DHX> I don't think Winchester ever disputed that
[02:53] <LurkingGoblin> Winchester is working on a "Expys aren't really them" mentality. I disagree with that opinion. If they act, think and look the same, they are
[02:54] <Winchester> Yeah, but I also realize that no military would ever make a military unit out of teenaged girls and then leave them to their own devices with no adult support or supervision
[02:54] <Golden> Then don't
[02:54] <Golden> We have characters in the military who can act as 'den-mother'
[02:54] <dan-heron> wait, somebody suggested the military and the Alliance both somehow leaving the Witches all on their own?
[02:55] <Golden> Hell no
[02:55] <dan-heron> how does that even work?
[02:55] <LurkingGoblin> regardless of differences in origin they will be the same characters. as for the military, they are part of the military
[02:55] <DHX> not that i know of
[02:55] <LurkingGoblin> slight plot hole of why the military uses little girls because they don't want little girls to fight... but that can be dealt with
[02:56] <LurkingGoblin> and DA may well have
[02:56] <LurkingGoblin> considering it's his story
[02:56] <dan-heron> Why not just up their age?
[02:56] <Quine> Isn't there so much uncertainty between now and the time the Strike Witches are scheduled to go in that this argument could easily be rendered obsolete by then?
[02:56] <Golden> Yes.
[02:56] <DHX> point
[02:56] <Golden> Why are we actually having this conversation?
[02:56] <dan-heron> I mean, don't they exist military schools that take teenagers?
[02:57] <LurkingGoblin> dan...I love you
[02:57] <dan-heron> I mean, just because they are military school doesn't mean they are going to toss them off a plane into a war zone
[02:57] <Winchester> I was just asking the question of how does the MGA let this team rack up personal kill totals in excess of 200 each, without sending some serious firepower?
[02:57] <dan-heron> Simple, Winchester
[02:57] <dan-heron> they send some series firepower to watch over the Witches
[02:57] <LurkingGoblin> I now have some ideas to give to DA
[02:58] <LurkingGoblin> as for the MGA and the SW the SW can handle a lot on their own
[02:58] <LurkingGoblin> they won't need much help
[02:58] <Quine> dan: Doesn't that kind of defeat the point of the Strike Witches?
[02:58] <dan-heron> not if it's for training
[02:58] <LurkingGoblin> and the MGA can't afford to waste resources it doesn't have to
[02:58] <dan-heron> once that stage is done, you deploy them
[02:59] <LurkingGoblin> think of it this way
[02:59] <LurkingGoblin> the MGA is big, it's got some heavy hitter, but it's protecting an entire PLANET
[02:59] <dan-heron> the MGA won't accept to send untrained people into the battlefield. Hell, nobody would want that, even if that's the standard training method for a magical girl
[03:00] <LurkingGoblin> the SW are a privately funded, government overseen project to cover the gaps left by the MGA in the defense of said planet
[03:01] <LurkingGoblin> they are faster, tankier, and more numerous then any other single group of MGs
[03:01] <Winchester> I also have a big problem with there being an upper age limit to their magic if they're native to the BF world
[03:01] <LurkingGoblin> they do like power to take out big things
[03:01] <LurkingGoblin> laxk*
[03:02] <LurkingGoblin> lack*
[03:02] <LurkingGoblin> but they make up for this in being DAMNED hard to actually shoot down
[03:02] <dan-heron> yes Winchester?
[03:02] <Golden> Also solved
[03:03] <LurkingGoblin> they provide a force of standardized support for the basic millitaries of the world
[03:03] <Golden> The other reason why the SUs are not able to replace the Alliance is that they are taxing.
[03:03] <Golden> It's an artificial and unnatural strain upon the pilots
[03:04] <Quine> The burnout really doesn't sit well with me.
[03:04] <DHX> and Winchester's stance is the MGA wouldn't allow such a thing to go on if i remember correctly
[03:04] <LurkingGoblin> the age thing is problematic as is the burnout
[03:04] <DHX> they would seek to fix it.
[03:04] <Golden> Of course
[03:04] <Golden> Unintended consequences.
[03:05] <Golden> That's why IS is developed.
[03:05] <dan-heron> indeed
[03:05] <Winchester> Can you imagine Usagi letting girls burn themselves out before age 25?
[03:05] <dan-heron> nope, that's why they will get training, Winchester
[03:05] <dan-heron> simple
[03:05] <LurkingGoblin> I think the way to dodge it is just to have the SW funded privately, but overseen by the government
[03:05] <dan-heron> that's what is going to happen, Goblin
[03:06] <Quine> Who's deploying them, then?
[03:06] <DHX> thats not how it's been explained to me
[03:06] <LurkingGoblin> explaining why they are so young and still in use by militaries and not the alliance
[03:06] <Golden> People forget alot of things DHX
[03:06] <dan-heron> how was explained to you?
[03:06] <Quine> That doesn't seem to explain anything.
[03:06] <LurkingGoblin> let me finish , silly pancakes
[03:07] <DHX> the Strike witches are a military project
[03:07] <LurkingGoblin> again, let me finish
[03:07] <dan-heron> write all the thing then, Gobin. Don't go sentence by sentence
[03:07] <LurkingGoblin> ahh that works
[03:07] <dan-heron> ok, let's take a minute break while Goblin gets his thing done
[03:08] <dan-heron> off for coffee!
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[03:10] <LurkingGoblin> The SW are privately funded, this allows them to be separate from the MGA, but gives us an excuse for them to be underage and still in the military. They will not burnout, or lose powers due to age, but will use the MG excuse for why they are young.
[03:11] <dan-heron> what's the MG excuse?
[03:11] <Quine> I still don't see how private funding explains any of that.
[03:11] <Winchester> ...Darth just blew it on the forum
[03:12] <LurkingGoblin> whatever the hell we have for the rest of our MGs
[03:12] <LurkingGoblin> I can't remember
[03:12] <DHX> i don't think the military would accept mostly underaged girls in large numbers on the battlefield
[03:13] <dan-heron> doesn't mean they won't, though
[03:13] <Golden> Darth is a dumbass
[03:13] <Golden> That is all
[03:14] <DHX> not in the large numbers being suggested.
[03:14] <DHX> some nations, yes. but there is too much of a taboo about children
[03:14] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golden
[03:15] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Strike Witches, Darth being a dumbass'
[03:15] <LurkingGoblin> By this time the MGA will have pounded those taboos into the ground
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[03:15] <Quine> Seriously, what's the relevance of private funding? What does it have to do with them being separate from the MGA, or excusing the fact that they're underage and in the military?
[03:15] <DHX> No, they would make it worse.
[03:15] <LurkingGoblin> this is at least 4 years after the reveal
[03:15] <Winchester> Some kids are chosen. They're the regular magical girls. Some kids volunteer. They become Strike Witches, if they have the ability.
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[03:16] <@Golden> Or Puella Magi
[03:16] <DHX> People would be screaming at the governments to find solutions that don't put kids in harms way
[03:16] <@Golden> Though they're chosen by Incubators, they ultimately choose to make the contract
[03:17] <LurkingGoblin> @quine private funding means "I have money, these girls have magic, I don't want them to work for the MGA but I trust my elected officials, so here, have money so these girls can fight for their country!"
[03:17] <DHX> sure, and for every one who does there will be someone opposed
[03:17] <dan-heron> DHX, children blow up monsters. That's the reality of the world by the end of Arc 2. As Winchester mentioned, there will be volunteers and kids that are scream "they need to be bring in".
[03:18] <DHX> and you miss my point
[03:18] <Winchester> If the Strike Witches start as a private program, the MGA will probably end up taking it over and running it.
[03:18] <Quine> ...that still doesn't seem to explain anything. How is that different from if they were funded by income taxes, or by wherever the money for the MGA is coming from?
[03:18] <@Golden> Allow me to tell you a secret:
[03:19] <@Golden> Military contractors don't give a damn about what the public says.
[03:19] <LurkingGoblin> because whoever funds the project decides how those funds are use
[03:19] <LurkingGoblin> they say "heres money, and heres some girls who want to fight and can. Use them' the government will
[03:19] <@Golden> Their entire purpose is to make money.
[03:19] <Winchester> Quine: Meiou Setsuna is bankrolling them, duh.
[03:20] <LurkingGoblin> because its a magical force they have SOME say over
[03:20] <LurkingGoblin> as opposed to the MGA
[03:20] <LurkingGoblin> which can say "Lol no" to any demands or requests
[03:20] <DHX> sure there are magic girls and there is nothing they can do to stop them croping up, and sure military contractors don't really care, but the military does answer to the government most of the time and the government is hostage to the voters.
[03:21] <DHX> Look i'm not arguing against it happening, i'm just saying it's not as cut and dry
[03:21] <LurkingGoblin> even if they end up doing the same thing, control, and illusion of control is vital to politicians
[03:21] <LurkingGoblin> yes but the government wants to say it can control at least SOME MGs
[03:22] <LurkingGoblin> it needs to, or feels it needs to
[03:22] <dan-heron> DHX, you're giving the voters too much weight. Not to mention the power of good PR and the fact that the MGA will give them a huge unintended support by having members that are incredibly young.
[03:22] <Quine> So you're saying the reason the military is using underage girls in combat gear with crippling long-term side-effects is because some private interest group paid them to do it?
[03:22] <dan-heron> what long term side effects?
[03:22] <@Golden> You would be surprised: that happens in RL.
[03:23] <dan-heron> we removed them, Quine
[03:23] <Quine> Alright, which private interest group?
[03:23] <@Golden> CobaltCo
[03:23] <dan-heron> CobaltCo, of course
[03:23] <dan-heron> I mean, they are already doing that
[03:23] <LurkingGoblin> we can figure that out---or CobaltCo
[03:23] <Quine> Why?
[03:23] <@Golden> Cobalt can
[03:23] <dan-heron> ... because they already are, Quine
[03:24] <@Golden> That's the reason he does nearly everything
[03:24] <dan-heron> like in, already are passing the idea to the people who would like to have means to defend themselves from monsters
[03:24] <dan-heron> in arc 1, I mean
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[03:25] <Quine> When did the burnout get tossed out?
[03:26] <Winchester> When they came up with the private funding as an excuse for the low ages
[03:26] <DHX> let me explain where the disconnect here is. the way it has been explained to me is there are going to be thousands of strike witches world wide handling the issues that the MGA don't reach my only issue right now is the idea of the project being that big without major resistance.
[03:26] <dan-heron> when they get trained and the people in charge put contingencies in case the girls try to go into the state that causes the burnout?
[03:27] <Quine> About 20 minutes ago, it seemed to still be accepted that Strikers inevitably cause burnout.
[03:27] <dan-heron> nope, the Strikers inevitably lost their powers with age. That was removed
[03:28] <Quine> So if that's getting tossed out, why the low ages?
[03:28] <@Golden> Except Mio who found ways around it.
[03:28] <Winchester> To keep the loli squad as lolis.
[03:28] * @Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[03:28] <dan-heron> what low ages? We are upping the age, Quine
[03:29] <DHX> Since when?
[03:29] <Winchester> To what extent?
[03:29] <dan-heron> I'm getting a couple years
[03:29] <dan-heron> I'm guessing even
[03:29] <Winchester> Making the youngest girls of age would make the oldest ones 26
[03:29] <Quine> LG: "The SW are privately funded, this allows them to be separate from the MGA, but gives us an excuse for them to be underage and still in the military."
[03:29] <dan-heron> not that far, Winchester
[03:30] <dan-heron> maybe by the time the IS are developed, Winchester
[03:30] <Winchester> Half way, then
[03:30] <DHX> it's news to me, part of Winchester's whole arguement has been about the ages
[03:30] <dan-heron> oh wait, no I read that wrong
[03:30] <LurkingGoblin> we don't have to up age them
[03:31] <LurkingGoblin> privately funded fo's
[03:31] <LurkingGoblin> foo's*
[03:31] <dan-heron> but yeah, they a little older, they are no lolis
[03:31] <LurkingGoblin> no reason to up age them
[03:32] <Quine> So, if I understand the current proposal correctly: The Strike Witches are underage because Cobalt is specifically paying people to use underage girls. There are no problems with burnout or anything like that, so adults could use Strikers if Cobalt wasn't paying the military to use kids.
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[03:32] <Quine> I must have misunderstood something somewhere.
[03:33] <dan-heron> seems you misunderstood it again
[03:33] <Quine> Please correct me.
[03:34] <dan-heron> Nobody is paying to use exclusively kids, there's no burnout just a diminish of magical power with age but not to the extreme level of canon
[03:35] <Quine> Then why not deploy adults?
[03:35] <dan-heron> so losing magic at 20 isn't what's happening here, but a person of 20's will start having problems with the training.
[03:35] <Winchester> I looked things up on the wiki, and the youngest of the girls was Francesca (13) and Sanya (14). Yoshika was 15
[03:36] <dan-heron> yep, add some 5 years to their age
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[03:36] <dan-heron> and once they are done with the training, they will have even lower reserves, Quine.
[03:36] <Winchester> Dan- no diminishing power. Power grows with experience.
[03:37] <dan-heron> hmm, in the Strike Witches 1991, there seems to be a witch who uses an actual Apache heli
[03:37] <DHX> and after the MGA girls fix the problem?
[03:37] <dan-heron> not always, Winchester
[03:37] <Winchester> Let me finish.
[03:38] <dan-heron> Our official granny magical girl can't keep up for longer and can only fight sparingly
[03:38] <dan-heron> long periods of time, I mean
[03:38] <Winchester> The girls get stronger with age. At age 20-25, they're strong enough that they can't use the Striker's properly, they burn the units out. Not the other way around.
[03:39] <dan-heron> oh, that seems to be where part of your misunderstanding came from, Quine
[03:39] <Quine> That sounds like a problem you'd solve with more R&D, not by deploying it as-is.
[03:39] <Winchester> With a little help and training, the girls who've grown out of their strikers can learn to fly without them, and would join the MGA or the TSAB.
[03:39] <dan-heron> that sounds like it solves the problem too
[03:40] <Quine> Magical training wheels, then?
[03:40] <Winchester> Yes
[03:40] <dan-heron> sounds like it
[03:40] <dan-heron> at least until they get the power armors
[03:40] <Quine> Interesting proposal. Not sure how well it fits with the "magical USB" interpretation.
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[03:41] <Winchester> It at least gets rid of all the things I've been hating about the idea
[03:41] <DHX> so we have a solution to the age limit?
[03:41] <LurkingGoblin> brb phone
[03:42] <Winchester> Looks like it. Just turn the canon problem on its head, make the ending of a Witchs career happy rather than bittersweet
[03:42] <LurkingGoblin> I will respond to the SW stuff in a bit
[03:42] <LurkingGoblin> since DA isn't here
[03:45] <Quine> I wasn't expecting it to, but that actually makes the "private funding" thing make some sense.
[03:46] <Quine> Elements of the public don't want the Strike Witches in combat. Cobalt thinks they should get the practice. He pushes it through.
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[03:48] <Quine> (upon further reflection, the second sentence of that last line isn't quite what I wanted to say. but close enough.)
[03:50] <LurkingGoblin> Ok so thing. Girls do not get stronger with age, the point to them is that they are lower level massed support. there is no age limit, but much as with the rest of our MGs, for unspecified reasons it's just more effective to start young
[03:50] <LurkingGoblin> the private funding insures that the younger girls can still fight
[03:51] <LurkingGoblin> and will remain fighting for longer then in canon
[03:51] <LurkingGoblin> meaning they aren't just temporary fighters, but long term assests
[03:51] <LurkingGoblin> assets
[03:52] <LurkingGoblin> wait... *goes back and rereads*
[03:53] <LurkingGoblin> actually as long as we don't up age them, and let them have their strikers long term, I can see those ideas working
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[03:54] <LurkingGoblin> the Stratos units are better be default as they pack a much bigger punch, and are much tougher
[03:55] <Winchester> The argument on the forum right now appears to be about MA vs Watcher's Council, and that the Council would be worse... but actually, if you use the new council instead, BTVS would slot right into the Battle Fantasia project. All you need to remember is that the "history of the world" comes from the demons, and they're liars.
[03:55] <LurkingGoblin> so we don't need to make strikers "bad" to have an excuse to upgrade
[03:55] <DHX> actually LurkingGoblin whats your issue with age
[03:56] <LurkingGoblin> I'm doing a conversion of BTVS tell them to cool their heels unless they want to get off their asses and actually help me
[03:57] <LurkingGoblin> my issue is up ageing is annoying and we have already up aged a few series
[03:57] <LurkingGoblin> I see no reason to with SW as well
[03:57] <LurkingGoblin> not if we don't have to at least
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[04:04] <DHX> wait... is the MA argument starting up again?
[04:04] <LurkingGoblin> apparently out of no where, yes
[04:05] <LurkingGoblin> I knew it wasn't solved
[04:05] <Quine> It's back.
[04:05] <LurkingGoblin> but I thought it was tabled for later
[04:05] <LurkingGoblin> which brings us to my opinion "Kill it with fire!"
[04:06] <LurkingGoblin> or modify it so it doesn't suck
[04:06] <DHX> JEEZ! that's just typical we look to be resolving the SW's issue only for the MA issue to come back.
[04:06] <LurkingGoblin> I know right?
[04:06] <LurkingGoblin> next up PMMM will open back up
[04:06] <LurkingGoblin> and then Sakura
[04:06] <DHX> oh lord no.
[04:07] <LurkingGoblin> and next thing you know EVERYTHING is back
[04:07] <Quine> The logs for this chat are going to be posted to the wiki or something, right?
[04:07] <LurkingGoblin> yup, thats what winchester's been doing
[04:07] <LurkingGoblin> I think
[04:08] <Quine> We should probably record the new Strike Witches stuff on the Worldbuilding page or something.
[04:08] <DHX> the log's going to be massive
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[04:09] <DHX> the only issue is the age
[04:09] <LurkingGoblin> been at it strong for 10 hours
[04:09] <DHX> Lurking doesn't want them aged
[04:09] <LurkingGoblin> ya, its gonna be huge
[04:09] <DHX> others want a bit of aging
[04:09] <LurkingGoblin> they are 13-18 I see no reason to age them
[04:10] <Quine> I don't really care about the age as long as it makes sense for them to be deployed at that age.
[04:10] <LurkingGoblin> if anything THAT will change their characters more then anything else would
[04:10] <Quine> 13-18 is more "magical girl". Older makes more sense, but loses something.
[04:11] <Quine> As long as something makes 13-18 make sense, I'd go with that.
[04:12] <DHX> the problem was, as originally presented it was the military running things
[04:12] <DHX> and that caused adverse feelings towards the idea of the military deploying kids
[04:13] <DHX> the suggestion is it's privately funded
[04:13] <dan-heron> Sorry, what did I miss?
[04:13] <Quine> I don't think Cobalt has /that/ much money.
[04:13] <DHX> which is why younger kids are involved
[04:13] <dan-heron> of course not, but he knows how to sell an idea
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[04:14] <Quine> What's up with this Guest61045 guy?
[04:14] <dan-heron> no idea
[04:14] <DHX> just going over LurkingGoblin's adversary to aging up the SW girls slightly.
[04:16] <Winchester> Exactly when in the timeline of the Striker project are you going to slot the girls in?
[04:16] <dan-heron> 5 years later, during arc 3
[04:17] <LurkingGoblin> I could...maybe live with it. But I would really rather not. and it's DA's story, he should get a say in things
[04:17] <Quine> "it's DA's story" - really?
[04:17] <DHX> it's weird you know,
[04:18] <havocfett> Since /when/ was this DA's story?
[04:18] <havocfett> Really?
[04:18] <havocfett> It's a Round Robin
[04:18] <LurkingGoblin> the SW part, he's working on it
[04:18] <DHX> you fight with DA over the MA
[04:18] <havocfett> He is a founder of it, which means jack of shit.
[04:18] <LurkingGoblin> I meant the SW part
[04:18] <LurkingGoblin> since he's writing it
[04:18] <DHX> but venemently defend him over SW's
[04:19] <DHX> has he?
[04:19] <LurkingGoblin> He said he's working on it
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[04:19] <LurkingGoblin> there he is
[04:19] <DarthArtemis> let's make this quick. what's up with the Strike Witches?
[04:20] <LurkingGoblin> quick summery someone do it!
[04:20] <Winchester> The reason I'm asking is that the older girls would need to have had a couple of years worth of experience with the Strikers at least in order for them to have the mentor relationship they have in the series. That's kind of important. So the project needs to have been going for some time in order to get the Strike Witches character dynamics right. (even without them being war veterans).
[04:20] <DarthArtemis> hang on, i have an answer for that
[04:21] <DarthArtemis> we have the 501st being formed by the Alliance as their personal detachment of witches, right?
[04:21] <Winchester> Darth, basically, since we can't reconcile teens in a serious military unit, the strikers are operated by a private company
[04:21] <dan-heron> CobaltCo in particular
[04:21] <DarthArtemis> a PMC?
[04:21] <Winchester> More or less.
[04:22] <Quine> I thought it was just Cobalt pushing the military really hard.
[04:22] <Winchester> And, I think, the younger girls won't be quite as in the thick of things as you wanted, not at the start.
[04:22] <Quine> The PMC thing is news to me.
[04:23] <LurkingGoblin> It actually works well
[04:23] <LurkingGoblin> the PMC thing I mean
[04:23] <DHX> i thought it was privately funded, but overseen by the military
[04:23] <Winchester> DA was just the first one to call it a PMC, but that's pretty much what it's been since it was decided to run it privately
[04:23] <DarthArtemis> I like it. Cobalt is already employing magical girls anyways, why not make more of them?
[04:24] <Quine> I don't like it. That's giving Cobalt way too much reach and influence.
[04:24] <Winchester> Since Cobaltco won't have a lower age limit anywhere near what the military would impose, we can do away with the "loss of magic at 25"
[04:24] <DHX> but then we run into numbers
[04:24] <Quine> It'd make him the first line of defense for the entire globe.
[04:25] <LurkingGoblin> Not exactly
[04:25] <LurkingGoblin> just a key founder of it
[04:25] <DarthArtemis> the biggest issue i can see is that i'm not sure Doc Miyafuji would work for Cobalt. he's an enigma but i have a hard time seeing it for some reason
[04:25] <DHX> as in for them to be world wide and in anyway effective he's got to get lots of girls
[04:25] <Winchester> Cobalt, no matter how he swings it, is pretty much under the thumb of Shoutan Himei.
[04:26] <DHX> and people will balk at that idea
[04:26] <Quine> And also it'd be damn expensive, and I don't see the world's governments contracting their homeland defense to this one guy.
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[04:26] <Winchester> If he steps out of line, sailor nothing will squish him and both the MGA and Cobalt himself knows it
[04:27] <DarthArtemis> okay, one problem:
[04:28] <DarthArtemis> that more or less eliminates any pretense of the Strike Witches threatening to replace the Alliance during their intro arc
[04:28] <LurkingGoblin> true
[04:28] <DHX> THEY WHAT!
[04:28] <DarthArtemis> they're almost working for the Alliance right from the start, just using CC as a proxy
[04:29] <Winchester> There was never a realistic way of writing that scenario
[04:29] <DarthArtemis> calm yourself DHX
[04:29] <Winchester> Not in the timeframe that was being looked at anyway
[04:30] <Quine> Question: Is CobaltCo publicly traded? Does Cobalt control the whole thing exclusively, or is there anyone else with a say in what the company does?
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[04:30] <DarthArtemis> it was supposed to be a "Jet Alone vs NERV" scenario if you will
[04:30] <LurkingGoblin> Others should be involved as well
[04:30] <Winchester> To replace MGA, you'd need several hundred Witches minimum,
[04:31] <DHX> This is getting damn confusing.
[04:31] <LurkingGoblin> we intend to have that many
[04:31] <Winchester> That's to *start*
[04:31] <DHX> i just spent hours trying to get Lurking and Win to compromise over strike witches
[04:32] <DHX> and they were to technically be the adversaries?#
[04:32] <DarthArtemis> in a kinda sorta not really way
[04:33] <DarthArtemis> the idea is that the witches are developed as an alternative to the Alliance while the MGA is still trying to get its bearings on the international scene, this being within five years or so after they get their formal international authority
[04:33] <Winchester> Cobalt offers Strike Witch technology to the militaries, and they're set to jump on it. Cobalt says, they younger you start the better. "So, eighteen?" "More like thirteen". "errrr"
[04:34] <DarthArtemis> one sec winchester, i've got an answer for that
[04:34] <DarthArtemis> the early witches come out the gate and show off their stuff and they have really fantastic showings against monsters of the week
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[04:35] <Quine> (gotta go eat. hopefully this conversation won't have scrolled off the top of mibbit's log by then.)
[04:35] <Winchester> The 501st can be the test pilots that Cobalt used during development, and whoever gets recruited by his company afterwards, while the military operate their own, less effective but much larger squadrons
[04:35] <DarthArtemis> military powers the world over start clamoring for their own versions. the US has an international relations coup by simply handing over the designs
[04:36] <DarthArtemis> suddenly every nation can defend themselves from monster attacks
[04:36] <DarthArtemis> then the first Eldritch Abomination shows up
[04:37] <Winchester> ...and the witches suffer horrendous casualties. Not neccessarily fatal, but still very bad.
[04:38] <DHX> this is the original set up right?
[04:38] <DarthArtemis> pretty much. after that it becomes clear that the Alliance really is necessary even with these fancy new toys, but Hayate can see the benefits to having them and sends recruitment offers to some girls from squadrons that are being disbanded
[04:38] <DarthArtemis> thus the 501st Joint Defense Squadron is born
[04:38] <DarthArtemis> that's the original plan
[04:39] <DarthArtemis> anyways, winchester:
[04:40] <DarthArtemis> in regards to the girls being too young to fight, one of the changes to the world that i had in mind was that the draft would be reinstated in a lot of places and the enlistment age lowered as far as it can go
[04:40] <DarthArtemis> this is a reaction to public panic about the idea that monsters could lurk on any street corner or invade any city in the nation at any moment
[04:41] <DarthArtemis> it would make the Red Scare look like a Christmas party until the Alliance started to show that they could protect people from these things
[04:41] <Winchester> Francesca Lucchini is thirteen. The draft won't go *that* low.
[04:42] <DHX> DA, as much as the public would panic, they would throw a strop about the idea of throwing kids barely past 10 into the field
[04:42] <LurkingGoblin> indeed
[04:43] <Winchester> IIRC the whole point of the military researching magitech was to relieve the magical girls because the public felt they're too young to be facing that kind of pressure
[04:43] <LurkingGoblin> 17, 16 MAYBE, not lower, not in most countries
[04:43] <DarthArtemis> possibly. that depends on how severely fear takes hold.
[04:43] <Winchester> They're going to want stuff that *adults* can use.
[04:44] <DarthArtemis> Winchester, it's more a matter of the military not wanting to rely on a bunch of kids to do their jobs for them. the rank and file probably see it your way but a lot of the people in charge want to be able to keep doing their jobs
[04:44] <Winchester> The problem comes when it turns out that unless you start young, you're never going to have the magical flexibility to do much
[04:45] <DarthArtemis> and that's been established with the CobaltCo girls
[04:45] <DarthArtemis> speaking of which
[04:46] <DarthArtemis> going back to the PMC idea, if "replacement for the MGA" doesn't work, then what will?
[04:46] <DarthArtemis> insofar as their relevance to their intro plot goes
[04:46] <Winchester> What would happen then is that the governments would bite down, take what they can get, and start testing schoolgirls for magical potential and "encourage" them to join training units
[04:47] <Winchester> Something similar happend in a mecha show I watched a good long while ago. Can't remember the title, had something to do with music.
[04:48] <DarthArtemis> Macross?
[04:48] <Winchester> No, the title mentioned music somehow. But macross fits too.
[04:48] <Winchester> Especially Mac F
[04:49] <Winchester> Gunparade March, that was it
[04:49] <DarthArtemis> ah
[04:49] <LurkingGoblin> I see the SW as being privately funded but with government oversite, they are under nominal control by the governments, which is why the governments like them
[04:49] <LurkingGoblin> because they can see "these are OUR girls"
[04:50] <Winchester> I
[04:50] <LurkingGoblin> with the MGA it's not any one countries "girls"
[04:50] <LurkingGoblin> nationalism is strong and they are going to want their own lines of defense
[04:50] <DarthArtemis> so they're basically mercenaries hired out from CC?
[04:51] <LurkingGoblin> yes they will be international, yes they will work with the MGA but as far the the governments and people see them, they represent their country
[04:51] <LurkingGoblin> @DA: basically yes
[04:51] <LurkingGoblin> only nationalistically charged
[04:51] <Winchester> I see actual military units being formed of adult girls immediately, and when it doesn't work the way they hope, schools are encouraged to form "Striker" clubs, with junior ROTC elements
[04:52] <LurkingGoblin> also nationalistically is actually a word. I did not expect that
[04:52] <DarthArtemis> cool, i like these ideas. i had planned for the rank and file troops to hold up "their" girls as pseudo-mascots in the first place, sort of "troops supporting the troops"
[04:52] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[04:53] <dan-heron> what did I miss?
[04:53] <Winchester> Another revolution in military affairs
[04:53] <dan-heron> oh, what now?
[04:55] <Winchester> Adult strike witch units formed by the governments with limited success due to low magical flexibility; school clubs formed with ROTC elements to recruit and train younger girls with higher potential
[04:55] <DarthArtemis> short version: the SWs are now mercenaries working for CobaltCo and hired out to the MGA and the various nations
[04:56] <Winchester> The girls of the 501st would (in my idea) come from national competitions, and be sent to learn magical combat and tactics from the veterans, and help develop doctrine for Witch units
[04:56] <DarthArtemis> penetration of said ROTC elements should not be tremendously deep. we don't want to get to PMMM and find out that Madoka's a military girl
[04:57] <DarthArtemis> Homura would flip
[04:57] <LurkingGoblin> *thinks*
[04:57] <LurkingGoblin> ummm Darth?
[04:57] <DarthArtemis> yes?
[04:57] <LurkingGoblin> that sounds...awesome
[04:57] <LurkingGoblin> just saying
[04:58] <DarthArtemis> looooooooool
[04:58] <dan-heron> what does ROTC stand for?
[04:58] <DarthArtemis> it's those junior officer things you can sign up for in high school
[04:58] <Winchester> Puella Magi potential doesn't come out in the same kind of tests as Strike Witch potential, which is why none of the PMMM girls are in the Strikers clubs.
[04:58] <dan-heron> ah, ok
[04:59] <DarthArtemis> that makes sense
[04:59] <Winchester> Reserve Officer Training somethingwithC
[04:59] <LurkingGoblin> i'm sorry but Madoka being military, and Homura fliping is at the very least worthy of an omake
[04:59] <Winchester> It is.
[04:59] <LurkingGoblin> Reserve Officers' Training Corps
[04:59] <DarthArtemis> You are now thinking of Madoka flying around with no pants on while Homura is present
[05:00] <LurkingGoblin> and freaking out
[05:00] <LurkingGoblin> that part is important
[05:00] <DarthArtemis> no, just staring. nosebleed and all
[05:00] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[05:00] <DarthArtemis> "This timeline is wonderful"
[05:00] <DarthArtemis> complete deadpan
[05:00] <dan-heron> indeed, because she probably has somebody she can talk about her guns
[05:00] <dan-heron> and rockets
[05:00] <LurkingGoblin> oh god
[05:01] <Winchester> There's a Junior ROTC in some places, with no obligation (they go on training camps in the summer, etc); the full deal is the military pays for college and you pay them back by becoming an officer
[05:01] <LurkingGoblin> someone needs to fund the fuck out of that
[05:01] <LurkingGoblin> where's the PMMM ideas thread, we need to drop that there
[05:01] * DarthArtemis resists temptation
[05:01] <DarthArtemis> i have wooooooork...
[05:01] <DarthArtemis> and i need to edit chapter 5....
[05:02] <LurkingGoblin> yup I saw them around collage
[05:02] <dan-heron> there there, Darth. The weekend is practically tomorrow
[05:02] <LurkingGoblin> oddly they were all hot girls
[05:02] <Winchester> posting to PMMM thread now
[05:02] <LurkingGoblin> and one random black guy
[05:02] <DarthArtemis> my weekend starts on thursday. it's still not soon enough
[05:02] <LurkingGoblin> who looked like a tank
[05:02] <DHX> i need to go to sleep. why the hell am i still up?
[05:03] <dan-heron> you're already sleep, you just don't know it
[05:03] <LurkingGoblin> @DHX because you love underage girls in their underwear so much you can't bear leaving?
[05:04] <DarthArtemis> guys, i need you to get write-ups of these ideas and any further discussion of them and dump them in the thread. I NEED to get this work done, I've already burned a half-hour longer than I meant to here
[05:04] <DHX> dude you don't know how funny that is considering i'm a breast fiend.
[05:04] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[05:04] <dan-heron> just leave a note over the thread that you got shinies, and post them tomorrow
[05:04] <dan-heron> to Darth, I mean
[05:05] <DarthArtemis> i mean the level i'm building for my game design class, not writing stuff
[05:05] <dan-heron> ohs
[05:06] <DarthArtemis> at least the Skyrim editor is functionally identical to the Fallout editors, I'd be in a world of trouble if I had to learn a new engine tonight
[05:07] <DarthArtemis> later all, maybe I'll catch you again in a few hours
[05:07] <LurkingGoblin> kk
[05:07] * DarthArtemis (cgiirc@D83A2C77.13A6EE6B.508AFB4E.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[05:07] <Winchester> I also need to catch some Z's, local time is 5 AM
[05:07] <DHX> I'm going to try and get 5 hours sleep. (honestly that's the longest I can sleep uninterrupted) before i go, Winchester no longer has any issues right? and LurkingGoblin no longer has an issues right?
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[05:08] <Winchester> Nope. I think this could work out pretty well.
[05:08] <LurkingGoblin> nope, I'm good
[05:08] <LurkingGoblin> SW seems to be done
[05:08] <DHX> Phew.
[05:08] <LurkingGoblin> we can hopefully deal with MA tomorrow
[05:08] <DHX> Shudders.
[05:08] <LurkingGoblin> hopefully for the last time
[05:09] <LurkingGoblin> if not I'm putting axing them to a vote
[05:09] <dan-heron> well then, I'll see you people later
[05:09] <LurkingGoblin> kk
[05:09] <dan-heron> take care
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[05:09] <Winchester> NN
[05:09] <Winchester> I'm leaving the logkeeper running
[05:09] <LurkingGoblin> so I guess everyone else is logging off?
[05:09] <DHX> night, or rather Good morning.
[05:10] <LurkingGoblin> I feel so alone
[05:10] <DHX> yep
[05:10] <Winchester> Ask me for a log tomorrow
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[05:52] <Quine> Seriously, what the heck is up with this guy?
[05:55] <LurkingGoblin> which guy?
[05:57] <LurkingGoblin> oh the guest
[05:57] <LurkingGoblin> i'm not sure
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Session Close: Tue Feb 14 06:15:06 2012

Session Start: Tue Feb 14 06:15:06 2012
Session Ident: #Fantasia
[06:15] * Disconnected
[06:17] * Attempting to rejoin channel #Fantasia
[06:17] * Rejoined channel #Fantasia
[06:17] * Topic is 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Strike Witches, Darth being a dumbass'
[06:17] * Set by Golden!cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net on Tue Feb 14 03:15:08
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[06:28] <Quine> Huh. I hope the logkeeper doesn't do that in the middle of a conversation we really want logged.
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[06:35] <LurkingGoblin> indeed
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[06:44] * Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[06:45] <Golden> Boo
[06:45] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golden
[06:45] <Quine> Moo
[06:45] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Strike Witches, Darth NOT being a dumbass YAY'
[06:45] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[06:46] <LurkingGoblin> I have to go do something in a sec, but I just posted a reply to you Quine in the thread
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[06:48] <@Golden> Well if channel is dead, no reason to stay yes?
[06:48] <LurkingGoblin> so... battle. whatcha doin?
[06:48] <@Golden> Still trying to get out of my block on BFR
[06:48] <@Golden> It's been a damn year
[06:49] <LurkingGoblin> ahh
[06:49] <@Golden> And I want to advance the story already
[06:49] <LurkingGoblin> have you watched the two episode of the anime?
[06:49] <@Golden> I've read the manga
[06:49] <@Golden> Mostly inspiration
[06:49] <@Golden> Though Nova is going to be in it.
[06:49] <LurkingGoblin> kk
[06:49] <@Golden> :p
[06:49] <@Golden> Don't know who I'm talking about do you?
[06:49] <LurkingGoblin> not really no
[06:50] <LurkingGoblin> =P
[06:50] <@Golden> You haven't seen the Anime have you?
[06:50] <LurkingGoblin> the OVA and the first episode
[06:50] <@Golden> Nova is in the second season
[06:50] <LurkingGoblin> ahhh
[06:50] <@Golden> Basically, she's the counterpart to Hikaru
[06:51] <LurkingGoblin> oh wow the manga is far ahead
[06:51] <@Golden> Born from Hikaru's despair at killing the Pillar.
[06:51] <@Golden> Manga's done
[06:51] <LurkingGoblin> I didn't even know there WAS a manga
[06:51] <@Golden> Been done for over a decade.
[06:51] <LurkingGoblin> what hey now?
[06:51] <@Golden> The First season and First part of manga are almost exactly the same.
[06:52] <LurkingGoblin> I thought BRS started a few years ago
[06:52] <@Golden> MKR
[06:52] <@Golden> Magic Knight Rayearth
[06:52] <LurkingGoblin> ohhhhhh
[06:53] <LurkingGoblin> Yeah that one I haven't seen any of
[06:53] <@Golden> BFR is Battle Fantasia Rayearth
[06:53] <@Golden> I know what I want
[06:53] <LurkingGoblin> except a movie
[06:53] <@Golden> But I don't know how to write it.
[06:53] <LurkingGoblin> ahh, iknow the feeling
[06:53] <@Golden> It's been that way for the entire Earth portion.
[06:54] <@Golden> I have it divided into 3 parts
[06:54] <@Golden> Earth-Cephiro (new name)-Autozam
[06:55] <@Golden> I wrote myself into a corner and decided to mostly restart it.
[06:56] * havocfett (cgiirc@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[06:56] <LurkingGoblin> ahhhh, yeah, I haven't even started with my stuff
[06:56] <LurkingGoblin> I have terrible trouble writing
[06:56] <LurkingGoblin> it's why I dropped out of collage
[06:56] <@Golden> I even asked havocfett for help
[06:56] <LurkingGoblin> not being able to write kinda makes collage impossible
[06:56] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[06:57] <havocfett> Wiat, what did you ask me for help with?
[06:57] <havocfett> I think I've missed something important
[06:57] <@Golden> Not really
[06:57] <@Golden> Remember when you critiqued my first chapter of BFR?
[06:58] <@Golden> And I sent that PMing explaining myself a bit?
[06:58] <@Golden> PM
[06:59] <LurkingGoblin> just me trying to get more people to contribute to the project. But no one seems interested in Shugo Chara. Yet at least. And no one who knows BTVS has stepped forward to help with the conversion
[06:59] <LurkingGoblin> and no ones doing arc one reactions
[06:59] <havocfett> Oh, yeah
[06:59] <havocfett> That
[06:59] <@Golden> I know it to a degree
[06:59] <LurkingGoblin> we needs them
[06:59] <havocfett> I remember that PM
[06:59] <@Golden> And I can tell you it won't work.
[06:59] <LurkingGoblin> that's why its a conversion
[07:00] <@Golden> Even converted
[07:00] <LurkingGoblin> how so?
[07:00] <havocfett> I think one of the big problems with most of the snippets is a lack of description. They feel like the barebones portion of a chapter, as opposed to fully fleshed out versions.
[07:00] <@Golden> You'd need to port most of the characters.
[07:00] <@Golden> And I suck at descriptions
[07:00] <havocfett> Yeah, it's a difficult part of writing
[07:00] <@Golden> I know what I want but I can't put it to paper.
[07:00] <@Golden> So to speak
[07:01] <havocfett> But, well, a lack of proper description opens the field up for me to make terrible I-Beam Penis jokes. And no-one wants that.
[07:01] <@Golden> lol
[07:01] <havocfett> and no-one wants I-Beam Penis jokes.
[07:01] <Quine> I've never heard of these jokes. How do they go?
[07:02] <@Golden> No Quine
[07:02] <havocfett> (Maybe my roommates)
[07:02] <@Golden> Don't encourage him
[07:02] <havocfett> Someone gives a far too vague description, I fill it in in the most horrible way possible
[07:02] <havocfett> The specific instance is a description of a fighting stance which was "He moved his beam into the It-no-kachi' position from an RP I was in.
[07:03] <havocfett> Which I declared was him holding an I-Beam in front of his crotch and thrusting occasionally until more description was added
[07:04] <@Golden> I only came to check in anyway.
[07:04] <@Golden> Time to sleep for big test tomorrow.
[07:04] <havocfett> Good Luck!
[07:04] <@Golden> I'll pass.
[07:05] <@Golden> I'm quite capable of writing.
[07:05] <@Golden> Just have horrible descriptive weakness.
[07:05] <@Golden> See ya.
[07:05] <havocfett> See ya!
[07:05] <Quine> Bye.
[07:08] <LurkingGoblin> latters battle
[07:08] <LurkingGoblin> posted in thread Quine
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[07:13] <Quine> I... wait. What was the MA supposed to be trying to achieve, again?
[07:14] <Quine> I thought we had something that made sense, but what I remember doesn't make sense, so either I'm remembering an old version or I've forgotten the rationale.
[07:14] <havocfett> We /did/ have something that makes sense.
[07:14] <havocfett> do even
[07:15] <havocfett> They are convinced that the only way for Magical girls to survive is to stay underground and fight DKs, so that the DKs can't hunt them down and assassinate them.
[07:15] <Quine> So... not trying to hide the existence of magic, but still trying to hide the practitioners?
[07:15] <havocfett> And so that they won't get killed by political elements, etc.
[07:15] <havocfett> Not done explaining
[07:16] <havocfett> The idea is that they were founded during the inquisition periods
[07:16] <havocfett> And so public magical girls were executed
[07:16] <havocfett> Or assassinated by the DKs
[07:16] <havocfett> Due to institutional rot and corruption, they refuse to change from their first stance when the Masquerade is broken
[07:17] <havocfett> Their part of the arc is them being forced to change, but with better motivations, being a noncombat instead of a useless combat enemy
[07:17] <havocfett> Etc.
[07:17] <havocfett> Rhaka has a good post on this.
[07:17] <Zeruel> So, that means I have to abandon my Phantasmoon story.
[07:18] <Zeruel> Whatever, I'm not going to go emo on this change.
[07:18] <havocfett> http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost.php?p=7278307&postcount=95
[07:18] <havocfett> We're not sure, yet
[07:18] <Zeruel> If it would stop people form bitching about it anymore, I'm up for it.
[07:19] <Quine> Hmm. How are they going to try to reinstate the masquerade again? What with all the evidence and such.
[07:19] <Quine> Zeruel: Why were you constantly connecting and disconnecting every ~15 minutes?
[07:19] <Zeruel> Oh, that was just me pinging out.
[07:19] <Zeruel> Blame my internet.
[07:19] <Zeruel> And I have it set up so that, if I get disconnected from the IRC, I can automatically reconnect within 3 seconds.
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[07:41] <Quine> Still not remembering the logic behind how the MA stuff is supposed to go. I guess I'll just sit out the MA discussion until I remember or a changed version shows up that I get.
[07:43] <LurkingGoblin> sorry about my absense
[07:44] <LurkingGoblin> I was away
[07:44] <LurkingGoblin> shaving
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[07:46] <havocfett> I /really/ don't get what DA has against Earth Scorpion
[07:46] <LurkingGoblin> past grudge?
[07:46] <havocfett> I can't think of anything
[07:47] <havocfett> There was the thing where, like, twelve people pointed out that DA's moral compass is right fucked up.
[07:47] <havocfett> But I didn't get ignored for that.
[07:48] <havocfett> And I know that DA hates ES because AEE and ANE weren't all sunshine and rainbows, and had Rei as creepy.
[07:48] <havocfett> ...wait, that's enough, isn't it?
[07:48] <LurkingGoblin> AEE and ANE?
[07:49] <havocfett> Earth Scorpions two Evangelion projects
[07:49] <havocfett> ANE was first
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[07:49] <havocfett> And he realized that tropes were degrading his quality of work
[07:49] <havocfett> And that he screwed up writing it
[07:49] <havocfett> So he scrapped it
[07:49] <havocfett> And is writing AEE
[07:49] <LurkingGoblin> Ahhh alright
[07:49] <havocfett> They are Cthulhu Tech+Sensible Worldbuilding+Evangelion
[07:50] <havocfett> +Fear, a bit.
[07:51] <LurkingGoblin> understandable why DA would have a problem. Though he's still silly for ignoreing ES's post, the one you linked was just good writing essentials from what I could tell
[07:52] <LurkingGoblin> they can be worked around, but for most writing stuff like that is genuinely helpful
[07:59] <havocfett> Yeah, and it annoys the /crap/ out of me, because good advice is being ignored because of the person it's coming from
[07:59] <havocfett> And I am nowhere /near/ good enough at this to make posts of that quality
[07:59] <havocfett> I'm just good at pretending I am.
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[07:59] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[07:59] <havocfett> Yeah
[08:00] <havocfett> Story of my life.
[08:00] <LurkingGoblin> heh, brb
[08:00] <LurkingGoblin> posted in the forums btw
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[08:06] <LurkingGoblin> back
[08:13] <LurkingGoblin> anybody still on? havocfett, Quine, Zeruel? ANYBODY AT ALL!!! *echo echo echo*
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[08:14] <havocfett> Yo
[08:14] <LurkingGoblin> yay, i'm not alone
[08:14] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[08:15] <LurkingGoblin> so what are you up to atm?
[08:16] <havocfett> Writign
[08:16] <havocfett> Working on my job
[08:16] <havocfett> wondering if the Mass Effect demo is getting released today
[08:17] <havocfett> Talking a friend through depression
[08:17] <havocfett> Reviewing three stories
[08:17] <havocfett> And trying to salvage a friendship after turning a friend down on a date
[08:17] <havocfett> ....It's been a busy day.
[08:18] <LurkingGoblin> wow
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[08:18] <LurkingGoblin> indeed
[08:18] <LurkingGoblin> my day was involved in. well this basically
[08:19] <LurkingGoblin> my life is quite boring
[08:19] <havocfett> Heh
[08:19] <LurkingGoblin> and not really fun
[08:19] <havocfett> I kind of wish i could say the same.
[08:20] <LurkingGoblin> I spent 14 hours arguing over the BFP
[08:20] <LurkingGoblin> I would have preferred something else, but damn it, things had to be dealt with
[08:21] <havocfett> Heh
[08:21] <LurkingGoblin> Also apparently I'm an engine for progress according to, somebody, battle I think it was
[08:21] <LurkingGoblin> my rantings and bad ideas apparently make everyone else work harder or something
[08:21] <LurkingGoblin> which I'm entirely fine with
[08:22] <havocfett> Heh
[08:22] <havocfett> I'm taking credit for the forward progress
[08:22] <LurkingGoblin> if I have to wear a dunce cap and scream incoherently while my ideas are shot down to make BFP I will gladly do so
[08:23] <LurkingGoblin> BFP better*
[08:23] <LurkingGoblin> heh yeah you were helpful
[08:23] <havocfett> Since the wiki kicked back up, the irc channel was rebooted, things began to improve, and we began to get more public, successful rants at Darth Artemis.
[08:23] <havocfett> All of which are /great/ things for BFP's future.
[08:23] <LurkingGoblin> yup
[08:24] <LurkingGoblin> I'm hoping we can get our writers to be a bit more transparent with their work though
[08:24] <LurkingGoblin> DA was right about Gamlain basically ignoring the rest of us and doing his own thing
[08:24] <LurkingGoblin> it's good stuff but still
[08:25] <havocfett> Yeah
[08:26] <LurkingGoblin> we also need some more writters working on reactions and side stories
[08:26] <LurkingGoblin> not as important as main plot
[08:26] <LurkingGoblin> but filling out the world should help the main plot move
[08:26] <havocfett> Heh
[08:27] <LurkingGoblin> I'm going to have to get off my ass and write some
[08:27] <LurkingGoblin> but my writing is...well
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[08:30] <LurkingGoblin> you dropped out for a second there=P
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[08:31] <LurkingGoblin> anyway, I was just saying that my stuff is pretty bad. and short as hell.
[08:31] <LurkingGoblin> I need to redo the H2O stuff
[08:32] <LurkingGoblin> I had a good plot for them and dropped it after two kinda fail snips
[08:33] <LurkingGoblin> tomorrow is my "Let's get real" day. I'm gonna try and get something out, maybe get everyone else going
[08:33] <havocfett> Good luck!
[08:35] <LurkingGoblin> but anywho, I gotta hit it. It's getting late and I have an early day tomorrow (Unholy Trash company and it's drivers who are trolls, they switch up their time every week so you don't know if they are coming at 5 AM or 5 PM.)
[08:35] <havocfett> Good Night!
[08:35] <LurkingGoblin> Good night back =P
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[11:27] <DHX> Morning all!
[11:27] <Quine> Good morning.
[11:28] <Quine> I don't think "all" consists of very many people right now, though.
[11:29] <Quine> ...yup, looks like we're it.
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[11:33] <DHX> LOL
[11:33] <DHX> yeah that's true
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[11:34] * Zeruel is now known as Guest14968
[11:35] <DHX> what are your thoughts on the BTVS issue?
[11:39] <Quine> As I mentioned in the thread, I know about 3-5 sentences worth about the show, so I can't say much beyond the fact that I don't see the benefit of including it.
[11:39] <Quine> What's your SB name?
[11:42] <DHX> DeathsheadX
[11:44] <DHX> personally i see the logic behind LurkingGoblin's desire, but it doesn't really need to be BTVS
[11:45] <Quine> Man, I wish search was working.
[11:45] <DHX> do i ever.
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[12:16] * Winchester (~Wincheste@Rizon-95EF240D.cust.tele2.se) has joined #Fantasia
[12:16] <Winchester> Anybody listening?
[12:24] <DHX> yo.
[12:24] <Winchester> o/
[12:24] <DHX> what does o/ mean?
[12:25] <Winchester> it's a guy waving one arm...
[12:25] <DHX> ahhh. now i see it.
[12:26] <Winchester> \o/ is a guy waving both arms.
[12:26] <Winchester> Or throwing them up in despair
[12:26] <DHX> oh trying to save a goal?
[12:27] <Winchester> That would be /o/
[12:27] <DHX> ah.
[12:27] <Winchester> :)
[12:28] <DHX> so the BTVS thing is it getting buried?
[12:29] <Quine> One thing before I leave: when are the logs going up?
[12:29] <Winchester> Dunno. It doesn't actually take much modification, since the "bad" parts of the group are gon by the time BFP starts
[12:29] <Winchester> Whenever someone who know how to ppost them shows up
[12:30] <Winchester> I've tried doing it myself, it didn't work right. So I'm leaving it to Rhaka
[12:30] <Quine> Huh. Okay.
[12:30] <Quine> Well, I'm off. See you guys later.
[12:31] <DHX> cya
[12:31] <Winchester> Silly keyboard can't spell right, the keys aren't precisely where I'm expecting them to be...
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[12:35] <DHX> crap i got a weird headache, going to lay down for a bit.
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[14:09] * Angry_Desu (AngryDesu@Rizon-2B24D799.bb.sky.com) has joined #Fantasia
[14:25] <Winchester> o/
[14:26] <Angry_Desu> 'lo
[14:27] <Winchester> How are things going?
[14:27] <Angry_Desu> Writing a bit,
[14:28] <Winchester> We had open warfare over some stuff here last night, but I think we've gotten it down to where we can agree
[14:29] <Winchester> Just waiting for Rhaka to show up so I can pass him the logs.
[14:29] <Angry_Desu> Should i fear?
[14:30] <Winchester> Nah, we were mainly arguing about Strike Witches, and a little about the Magus Association
[14:30] <Angry_Desu> I miss the days when she was easy and understood. Where we once thought things were solid and determined.
[14:31] <Winchester> Lol.
[14:31] <Angry_Desu> It's kind of sad that i have little issue with the series that involved girls flying around without pants on simply because it slotted in much easier than the MA is.
[14:32] <Winchester> There will probably still be an MA, they just won't be antagonists...
[14:32] <Winchester> Merely uneasy allies with a divergent agenda
[14:32] <Angry_Desu> so. much. facepalm.
[14:33] <Angry_Desu> See, once upon a time we had the MA as the figureheads of the 'old guard' - said old guard, essentially being 'everyone who wants magic to remain secret'
[14:33] <Angry_Desu> Whatever the reason why, they didn't want shit public.
[14:33] <Winchester> That's what happens when you take out *everything* except what was actually in KLPI and extrapolate from there without the greater Nasuverse
[14:34] <Angry_Desu> Yeah.
[14:35] <Angry_Desu> I mean some nasu themes could have been kept - that the MA allowed a lot of bastardry for instance - simply by claiming that the MA had one primary rule and that was 'don't reveal magic'
[14:35] <Angry_Desu> which works because so many magical girls, in their canons, ALSO operate under that rule.
[14:35] <Winchester> They still don't want things public, but they realize it's out of the bag (no, you can't put it back under wraps by assassinating all the girls who went public!)
[14:36] <Angry_Desu> See... I liked that one snip someone did of a tv panel show
[14:37] <Winchester> I remember that one.
[14:37] <Angry_Desu> where the MA guy had set everything up to be able to claim 'magic videos' as faked
[14:37] <Angry_Desu> That was kind of how i saw the MA responding initially - along with perhaps trying to capture those from the initial vids (Akiko, Nanoha, Fate) so those vids could be claimed 'faked'.
[14:38] <Winchester> The MA argument, as I understand it, is that bad things will find mages who go public. The MGA argues that the bad things might find them anyway, and that unless they go public the MGA *won't* until it's too late to help
[14:40] <Angry_Desu> Well... again you can play a bit of nasu theme for the MA's reasoning - specifically the mentioned belief that 'the more people with magic the less powerful magic becomes'.
[14:40] <Winchester> Which is demonstrably false given that Midchilda is magitech-based and works just fine.
[14:41] <Winchester> Then again, it might just be the actual *miracles* that won't work if people knew about them.
[14:43] <Winchester> Anyway, reconciling that belief with the existence of girls like Sailor Moon will be kind of difficult
[14:45] <Angry_Desu> The problem is that, well,
[14:45] <Angry_Desu> belief isn't something that's so easy to trash.
[14:46] <Winchester> mmm.
[14:48] <Angry_Desu> You have to do, and this more than a few... 'debators' in BF forget, basic cause and effect chains.
[14:49] <Angry_Desu> The MA wouldn't go 'they have so much magic, our laws and theories must be wrong!'
[14:50] <Angry_Desu> they'd be more likely to slot things, incorrectly, into what they think is right. I know we're not using Types and shit but in full nasuverse it wouldn't be hard to see usagi being labled as such because to the MA 'the only things with that much power are Types' or whatever.
[14:50] <Winchester> Anyway, we proved that it's possible to compromise last night - we went from "port the Strike Witches as is, making them a teenaged military unit fighting monsters on their own" (which I objected to on account of no actual military daring to send thirteen-year-olds into combat), and my counter of "visitors from a parallel universe where that setup makes sense"; through the Strike Witches
[14:50] <Winchester> being a PMC set up by Cobalt, to what I think was the final version of "military forms adult strike witch squadrons which don't work quite right, and form school clubs to raise future talent, from which we get the SW girls from the show".
[14:50] <Angry_Desu> This is entirely incorrect but according to how the MA think things work is right.
[14:52] <Winchester> And, we got rid of the "SW powers fade when they grow up", which was why the military had to use teenaged girls in the first place.
[14:52] <Angry_Desu> I like the idea that SW begin as sort of school clubs kind of thing.
[14:54] <Angry_Desu> Didn't someone mention that SW could end up a sort of... inter-school sport almost as these girls duel each other?
[14:54] <Winchester> DA wants the 501st (with the teenaged girls) to be attached permanently to the MGA, I'm advocating it being essentially a training unit for the best and brightest. Something which is *supposed* to be temporary. (It won't be, the MGA will end up recruiting the girls directly rather than sending them home to join the military).
[14:56] <Winchester> Yes, duels for training. Some actual monster hunting, but not to the point where they're the only ones fighting for years in a given area
[14:57] <Winchester> Not for the teenagers, anyway
[14:58] <Winchester> BTW: Imagine a whole stadium full of magical girls, transforming at the same time. To the tune of "Transformation" from the MacF OST2
[15:08] <Angry_Desu> mass transformations are always fun.
[15:08] <Angry_Desu> Though now i can't help but riff it in my head.
[15:09] <Winchester> That was the point.. :D
[15:09] <Angry_Desu> the token guys in the crowd realizing they're going to hell no matter where they look. naked transformations are so problematic.
[15:10] <Winchester> I mentioned the idea to LurkingGoblin yesterday. in his words "This...needs to happen", and "now we just need to get Desu or gamlain to write it for us"
[15:13] <Winchester> My personal ideas for the setup involve either a rousing speech ending in a "transform and move out" scene; or something like a concert for the MGA, where the girls on stage (secretly magical girls who haven't gone public), knowing who their audience is, end their concert by transforming - and everyone else following suit. Or something like that.
[15:16] <Winchester> "No matter who we are, we're all Mahou Shoujo. And we're awesome. Now we party!"
[15:18] <Winchester> Or - forget the artists being magical. Have it be a group like AKB on the stage - and at the end of it, it's them, the professional idols, asking "can we have your autographs?"
[15:20] <Angry_Desu> haha
[15:21] <Winchester> Can't use AKB themselves though, they only started in 2006 themselves
[17:26] <Angry_Desu> Things i discovered today: Lindy apparently was a teenage mother, having given birth to Chrono at around 16/17.
[17:26] <Winchester> Not totally surprising, though the implications are somewhat unfortunate.
[17:27] <Angry_Desu> Especially since clyde is five years older than she is.
[17:27] <Angry_Desu> and was likely of higher rank.
[17:27] <Angry_Desu> and suddenly that happy relationship looks disturbing!
[17:28] <Winchester> In Sweden, it's not stat rape if the difference is less than five years in age, and the girl is at least thirteen (IIRC)
[17:29] <Winchester> ...maybe fourteen.
[17:29] * dan-heron (cgiirc@B1CB7402.34787763.18A8FAFF.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[17:30] <Winchester> Good afternoon.
[17:30] <Angry_Desu> DAN, DAN, DAN
[17:30] <Angry_Desu> big news.
[17:30] <Angry_Desu> Lindy was a teenage mom.
[17:31] <dan-heron> ... really?
[17:31] <dan-heron> no wonder she looks so young
[17:31] <dan-heron> .... even 30 years later
[17:31] <dan-heron> and hey Win
[17:32] <Angry_Desu> Yeah. She's 31 in MGLN, Chrono is 14/15. That means she had him at 16/17.
[17:32] <dan-heron> where did the info come from?
[17:33] <Angry_Desu> official ages.
[17:33] <dan-heron> at what age did Chrono marry?
[17:33] <Winchester> It's in the nanoha wiki
[17:33] <Angry_Desu> I think there's an element of them not having, y'know, actually realized the math of that.
[17:33] <dan-heron> bah, surely it was all part of the plan
[17:34] <Angry_Desu> Not sure. IIRC the twins are 3 in Strikers, so Chrono and Amy would have been around... 22/23?
[17:34] <Angry_Desu> When they had 'em i mean
[17:34] <Winchester> Wiki says, she's 31 in Nanoha and A's, Chrono is 14
[17:35] <dan-heron> Strikers is 6 years after A's?
[17:35] <Winchester> ten
[17:35] <dan-heron> well, at least Chrono waited :3
[17:36] <Angry_Desu> Like he had a choice.
[17:36] <dan-heron> true
[17:36] <Angry_Desu> Lindy was probably hovering over Amy with a shotgun to make sure she didn't make the same mistakes.
[17:36] <dan-heron> she wouldn't like to see her poor Cwono pooh being taken advantage of
[17:36] <Winchester> A's epilogue is six years later, StrikerS TV is four years after that
[17:37] * LurkingGoblin (cgiirc@Rizon-71397D14.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[17:37] <Winchester> Yo goblin
[17:37] <LurkingGoblin> hello
[17:37] <LurkingGoblin> did I miss much?
[17:38] <Angry_Desu> nanoha question - unlimited desire, how does it work?
[17:38] <Winchester> If Lindy s 31, and Chrono is 14, what does that say about the TSAB?
[17:38] <dan-heron> just talk about Lindy being a teen mom, Goblin
[17:38] <LurkingGoblin> ahhh
[17:38] <dan-heron> You and Darth are the MSLN experts, Desu
[17:38] <Angry_Desu> ... i am?
[17:38] <Angry_Desu> Fuck.
[17:39] <Angry_Desu> UD is one of those things not very well explained at all.
[17:39] <dan-heron> well Winchester, considering they took in Erio and Caro in their ranks at their age, I think they don't really have compulsions against age related manners
[17:39] <LurkingGoblin> that still makes her 17 when she had him, not that bad
[17:39] <Angry_Desu> minus an additional nine months to get point of conception.
[17:40] <Winchester> Desu was a little squicked since Chrono's dad was five years older than Lindy
[17:40] <Angry_Desu> Then consider that clyde is a) five years older than lindy and b) outranks her
[17:40] <Angry_Desu> that relationship starts to look worryingly like 'abuse of power' then.
[17:40] <LurkingGoblin> eh' so 16, so it's gilmore girls but with a boy and sparkles
[17:40] <Winchester> Were they in the same chain of command?
[17:41] <dan-heron> exactly. Was Lindy already part of the TSAB? or even working under Clyde's command?
[17:41] <LurkingGoblin> oh, that on the other hand is a point
[17:41] <Winchester> Also, does Lindy look like the kind of person who'd be a passive party?
[17:41] <Angry_Desu> Now? no. Then? who knows.
[17:41] <LurkingGoblin> can we up age her a few years, or down age Chrono?
[17:42] <LurkingGoblin> he didn't look that much older then nanoha and Fate when he showed up
[17:42] <dan-heron> there's really no need
[17:42] <LurkingGoblin> I always pegged him as 11 or 12
[17:42] <dan-heron> those are different social values after all
[17:42] <LurkingGoblin> also a point
[17:42] <Winchester> Yes. The TSAB does not conform to earth morals
[17:42] <Angry_Desu> Why age her up? The idea that she was a teen mom is one that lends her particular perspectives on things anyway.
[17:43] <Angry_Desu> I imagine things went like... Clyde was going off on a tour for a long while so he and Lindy, y'know, got busy before he left off. Perhaps they planned to marry or such when he returned from that tour of duty.
[17:43] <Winchester> I'm also kind of guessing that she was a teen mom entirely voluntarily.
[17:43] <Angry_Desu> Except chrono happened.
[17:43] <LurkingGoblin> spain's legal age of consent is 13 after all. and mexico is 12 IIRC. so not everyone follows the 18 thing
[17:44] <Angry_Desu> so volentary but not planned.
[17:44] <dan-heron> 16 in Mexico, Goblin
[17:44] <LurkingGoblin> oh they changed it then
[17:44] <LurkingGoblin> few years back when I was curious it was 12
[17:44] <dan-heron> .... like 30 years back?
[17:45] <Angry_Desu> legal age in the UK is 16, but a 17 year old mother is still considered really young.
[17:45] <LurkingGoblin> I looked it up a few years ago, it said 12 for mexico *shrug*
[17:46] <Angry_Desu> Within my memory, maybe ten years ago-ish, the UK was considering lowering the age to 14.
[17:46] <Winchester> I'd hesitate to bring up the possible abortion politics of the TSAB, but they have a tech level where I wouldn't rule it impossible that they'd be able to remove an early fetus, and store it to resume a pregnancy later...
[17:46] <LurkingGoblin> I'm going to go with them being able to do that
[17:47] <dan-heron> scary Winchester, but very likely
[17:47] <LurkingGoblin> we aren't that far from that now IRL
[17:47] <Angry_Desu> probably not common.
[17:47] <LurkingGoblin> Oh I missed the exact wording
[17:47] <Angry_Desu> It sounds like one of those procedures which is doable but heavily advised against unless it's /really/ needed.
[17:47] <Winchester> "I can't have this baby right now, but I want to have it sooner or later"
[17:47] <LurkingGoblin> I meant they can likely transplant it to another mother
[17:48] <LurkingGoblin> or to an artificial womb. They can make people in tubes, they can likely switch hosts and other such things quite easily
[17:49] <dan-heron> in Earth, they are Test Tube Babies. In the TSAB, they are just Tube Babies
[17:49] <LurkingGoblin> MGLN's tech base is underestimated far to often IMO
[17:49] <Winchester> Bujold-style, where everyone except the neobarbs use uterine replicators?
[17:50] <Angry_Desu> Well consider that Jail made a bunch of girls.
[17:51] <Angry_Desu> Without any womb involved at all.
[17:51] <Angry_Desu> The tech is definately there.
[17:51] <Winchester> And then he turned it around and used their wombs to carry his clones...
[17:51] <dan-heron> eww
[17:52] <Winchester> That's canon, though
[17:52] <dan-heron> I know. I'm happy pretending that never happened
[17:52] <Angry_Desu> Yeah. On the topic of Jail... UD... i'm looking at making UD, essentially, a genetic/biological drive of 'MORE'
[17:53] <Winchester> http://nanoha.wikia.com/wiki/Unlimited_Desire
[17:53] <Angry_Desu> Very simple. MORE. MORE. MORE. This in turn sends peoples existing or pre-programmed desires into overdrive.
[17:54] <Winchester> The wiki says UD was the codename for the project created Jail - he too is an artificial mage
[17:54] <Angry_Desu> Except UD is also the term for what was done to him to make him so obsessed with his dream.
[17:55] <Angry_Desu> Essentially what makes him 'crazy ass jail' and not 'just another artificial mage'
[17:55] <Winchester> Tell the scarily brilliant scientist "you're just a clone, no matter how good you are".
[17:56] <Winchester> Watch him flip and decide to "show them all"
[17:56] <Angry_Desu> Hell, the wiki article specifically says he was implanted with a grand dream - but a dream alone isn't going to make him so devoted to it that he'll do half the shit he did.
[17:56] <Angry_Desu> If UD, at it's core, was a way to essentially make someone unsatisfiable... then you give them a dream they want satisfied...
[17:57] <Winchester> But does the process work on anyone else, or did Jail have to be specifically created that way?
[17:57] <Angry_Desu> So Jail has a desire to learn more about ancient belka... but he has this urge in the back of his brain constantly going 'MORE MORE MORE' then it would make sense.
[17:57] <Angry_Desu> Uno.
[17:58] <Angry_Desu> Uno is a flat genderswapped clone - yet she's not obsessed like he is.
[17:58] <Angry_Desu> Due, Tre and especially Quattro all show obsessions in other areas - implying the genetic component is obsession enforcement rather than a specific obsession.
[17:59] <Angry_Desu> Quattro clearly is the worst off after Jail himself.
[18:00] <Winchester> Quattro was the last one made specifically from his genetic material, though
[18:00] <Angry_Desu> Consider Quattros actions under the assumption that she did everything for Jail's approval - yet to her nothing she ever did was, or would ever be, enough. Leading her to get progressively more extreme in what she did.
[18:02] <Winchester> I think the Unlimited Desire is partially genetic, but needs a trigger. Jail's trigger was hit by the TSAB High Council; Uno's never was, and the other three may have triggered differently
[18:02] <Angry_Desu> Oooh. That means Uno might constantly be living with the vague fear that one day hers /will/ trigger and will drive her crazy.
[18:03] <Winchester> I definitely don't think that UD is something that can be given to just anyone
[18:03] <Angry_Desu> Could explain why she seems fairly rigid - deliberately doing everything she can not to set it off.
[18:04] <Angry_Desu> I imagine it's something that has to be in your genetic code from the start - it can't be added later, hence jail being made artificially with it in him.
[18:04] <Angry_Desu> Problem is it being in his code would mean it can potentially be passed on to children... which the first four numbers essentially are.
[18:06] <Winchester> Uno might also be an imperfect copy - was Jail trying to make clones with UD?
[18:06] <dan-heron> and the fetus growing inside the Numbers
[18:06] <Angry_Desu> Don't think so. I don't actually know when he realized it was genetic.
[18:06] <Angry_Desu> ... though that could explain why he suddenly stopped using his own samples to make further numbers with.
[18:07] <Winchester> Because he realized that they'd all be subject to UD?
[18:07] <dan-heron> but, weren't little Jail clones the ones he put in the Numbers?
[18:07] <dan-heron> or by then he no longer cared?
[18:08] <LurkingGoblin> as a note I just responded to the buffy stuff. God damn it the stupid is strong with some people. Expy does not equal fully ploping it into BFP. We have team fortress expys for fucks sake.
[18:08] <Winchester> If Une was by happy accident created without UD, and then the other three were, Jail might have figured out what the difference was and modded UD out of his new clones
[18:09] <LurkingGoblin> as for UD and Jail *shudders* can't we just...shove strikers under a rug and pretend it never happened?
[18:09] <LurkingGoblin> or cherry pick it
[18:09] <dan-heron> we can wait until that arc is around the corner
[18:10] <LurkingGoblin> that's good
[18:10] <LurkingGoblin> strikers needs a lot of work even if we take it mostly by canon
[18:11] <LurkingGoblin> Arc one and arc 2 need all the love they can get atm
[18:11] <Angry_Desu> Dan: on the jail clones the jail clones would have it yeah, but Cinque and below wouldn't even if they carried his clones - since they themselves were not made with UD-infected dna.
[18:13] * Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[18:14] <Winchester> The big problem with StrikerS is that going from where we are, to Nanoha, Fate and Hayate forming Riot Force 6 on Midchilda, is going to be rather difficult. Jail's plot and all would still remain and have the same timetable, but putting the MGLN cast in his way when they have reason to be staying on Earth?
[18:15] <Angry_Desu> buh.
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[18:15] <Angry_Desu> No, the aces would be on earth.
[18:15] <LurkingGoblin> that was decided long ago win
[18:15] <Angry_Desu> The point of the strikers arc was more to look at how StrikerS /goes horribly wrong/ because of the changes.
[18:16] <Winchester> Exactly. How do the Aces get in a position to be opposing Jail, and running into Vivio?
[18:16] <dan-heron> it's not of the Aces alone and more of the Alliance opposing Jail
[18:16] <Angry_Desu> it's a butterfly thing. MGA happens. Aces remain, or return early, to earth. Strikers happens and goes worse because the Aces (and hayate's contacts/support) were vital to concluding it well.
[18:17] <Angry_Desu> The vivio thing comes mostly because Darth.
[18:17] <Winchester> But that ends with needing some very contrived happenings in order to get Vivio into the care of Fate and Nanoha...
[18:17] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golden
[18:18] <Angry_Desu> Actually, only when you apply Darth.
[18:18] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: StrikerS'
[18:18] <Winchester> Lol
[18:18] <LurkingGoblin> On that note how DO we get Vivio to Earth?
[18:19] <LurkingGoblin> maybe jail does more then invest in projects on Earth
[18:19] <Angry_Desu> Simplest answer: We don't.
[18:19] <LurkingGoblin> he moves Vivio's creation there as well?
[18:19] <Angry_Desu> Why would he?
[18:19] <Angry_Desu> He didn't create her. He basically farmed her cloning out to anyone who wanted to try.
[18:19] <dan-heron> well, Earth probably doesn't have as strict anti cloning laws like in administrated worlds
[18:19] <Angry_Desu> ... which now i think about it implies the possibility of other vivio clones wandering around the dimensions.
[18:19] <dan-heron> or they just haven't made them
[18:19] <Winchester> How about this: While Fate and Nanoha don't live and work on Midchilda, they're still liasons to the TSAB and end up going there occasionally.
[18:20] <@Golden> Vivio eventually comes to Earth after the Alliance kicks Jail's ass.
[18:20] <LurkingGoblin> that's a good idea win
[18:20] <@Golden> And we had Nanoha going on vacation.
[18:20] <@Golden> :p
[18:20] <Angry_Desu> My original thought was that earth reinforcements come in to aid the ailing TSAB after StrikerS goes wrong
[18:20] <LurkingGoblin> Nanoha and crew run into Vivio as in canon, but on a trip
[18:20] <LurkingGoblin> well yes
[18:21] <LurkingGoblin> but this way we get vivio
[18:21] <Winchester> They're on Mid by coincidence right on time for the Vivio encounter. The erzats-RF6 fail to realize Vivio's importance, and Fate and Nanoha take her home with them.
[18:21] <Angry_Desu> so they're there as part of the asault on the cradle - Vivio has been pretty much mindwiped by that point anyway - Nanoha simply ends up with her after the rescue is over.
[18:21] <LurkingGoblin> Vivio>StrikerS plotline
[18:21] <Angry_Desu> I mean shit. She doesn't have to /start/ with nanoha. The church was quite happy to look after her before Nanoha decided to try adopting her.
[18:23] <LurkingGoblin> I like Winchester's version of events better. It also give us an excuse to have Jail, and whatever groups he's funded on Earth attack to take her back
[18:23] <LurkingGoblin> they succeed and the Alliance has a very good reason to come down HARD on the cradle
[18:24] <LurkingGoblin> it's not just a nebulous threat to the TSAB, it's a threat that attacked them and kidnapped one of the most visible and loved MGs
[18:24] <LurkingGoblin> daughter*
[18:25] <Angry_Desu> Oh gee. Not only do you need to make the Rf6 group braindead for that to work but you just put the MGA at war with a group located on a foreign power's soil.
[18:25] <LurkingGoblin> Nanoha is going to have no end of people asking if they can come with her
[18:25] <Winchester> Basically, vacationing Nanoha and Fate run to scene of incident, find orphan girl who erzats-RF6 missed. After trying to figure out where she came from, they get clearance to take her home. Jail sends the Numbers to Earth to get her, arousing the MGA and when Vivio is kidnapped to boot up the Cradle there are a lot more than just Nanoha going on the rescue
[18:26] <Angry_Desu> Except said girl was CHAINED TO A RELIC.
[18:26] <Angry_Desu> Remember that?
[18:26] <Winchester> Mmm.
[18:26] <Angry_Desu> That kind of makes her important to the TSAB since finding out why a girl was CHAINED TO A LOGIA would be on the 'important shit' list.
[18:26] <LurkingGoblin> I can see where you are coming from Desu. But we can change canon. StrikerS on is where we want to in the first place
[18:27] <LurkingGoblin> and where better then an alliance full of ancient magic users?
[18:27] <@Golden> One of the ways we changed it was that Jail succeeded.
[18:27] <Angry_Desu> How about a military of trained magic users.
[18:27] <Angry_Desu> Oh wait - that's basically the TSAB.
[18:28] <Winchester> Less angry, more desu, please? :D
[18:28] <Angry_Desu> You have yet to see me actually angry.
[18:28] <LurkingGoblin> yes but having Vivio on Earth can work
[18:28] <Angry_Desu> The point is that, as it stands, you're making a whole lot of changes for no reason other than to make sure 'nanoha-mama' happens.
[18:28] <Winchester> The manacles broke, or her hand slipped out. the suitcase with the relic is found separately from Vivio
[18:28] <Angry_Desu> Which is a shit reason to do changes that violate basic cause/effect logic.
[18:29] <Angry_Desu> Now, the idea that some cloning scientists may have hidden on earth because it's less patrolled by people who actually know who they are - that's viable.
[18:29] <LurkingGoblin> there's still having her start on Earth as well, with how much I remember us wanting Jail to have involved on Earth it's possible she starts there
[18:30] <Angry_Desu> But then you have to ask why jail would allow Vivio, who is an essential part of his plan, to be made on a planet so far away from him.
[18:30] <LurkingGoblin> which makes her staying with Nanoha much less contrived
[18:30] <Angry_Desu> When he kind of needs her right here.
[18:30] <Winchester> "Nanoha-mama" only needs Nanoha finding Vivio wandering around to happen, and then not finding anyone responsible for her.
[18:31] <LurkingGoblin> @desu: that is a good point though. We could tighten regulations, make it so that nowone is willing to make Vivio, except those on Earth
[18:31] <LurkingGoblin> at least in whatever price range Jail's willing to pay
[18:32] <Angry_Desu> I always figured that Vivio was being transported to jail, along with the relic, when something happened to let her essentially wander off.
[18:33] <Angry_Desu> because... lets face it, how the hell did she end up wandering about on her own if she was so valuable anyway?
[18:33] <Winchester> Jail isn't "letting" Vivio get off planet, he doesn't discover it's happening until it's done. Or something.
[18:36] <LurkingGoblin> tighter regulations mean more expensive to produce her near Jail, cheaper to do it on Earth, during transport to a save "teleport without alliance catching us" location she get's away for some reason. Nanoha find her
[18:36] <LurkingGoblin> Jail sends numbers and Earth allies to retrieve her shortly there after
[18:37] <Winchester> If Vivio is found separately from the relic (hand slipped out of the chain for example); Nanoha will still go "protective mama", and stay around longer than planned to look for her real mama. When they don't find anything after several days, they apply for permission to take her home to Mid, and it's granted (because they're still reserve members of the TSAB, and they have friends in high
[18:37] <Winchester> places.)
[18:38] <Winchester> That creates the "mama" relationship which turned out to be neccessary to safely bring her back from Saint Kaiser mode. (Vivio didn't want to hurt her mama and pulled all her punches as hard as she could).
[18:39] <LurkingGoblin> he succeeds. Nanoha prepares to storm off alone, walks into room full of alliance MG waiting led by Fate "I asked if anyone wanted to help, we had to order a few girls to stay behind" next is a scene of a chunk of the alliance descending out of portals over the Cradle.
[18:39] <LurkingGoblin> cue epic sparkly battle
[18:39] <LurkingGoblin> Vivio is saved
[18:40] <LurkingGoblin> Yuri Mommy's and daught skip away into the sunset
[18:40] <LurkingGoblin> Tea and cake is had by all
[18:40] <LurkingGoblin> =P
[18:40] <Winchester> Yes.
[18:40] <LurkingGoblin> also that stadium scene of yours Win?
[18:41] <Winchester> yes?
[18:41] <LurkingGoblin> that's their staging area for the mission
[18:41] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[18:41] <Winchester> :D
[18:44] <@Golden> win
[18:44] <Winchester> Yes?
[18:44] <@Golden> No
[18:44] <@Golden> Win
[18:44] <@Golden> Win
[18:44] <Winchester> Ah. win as in not-lose.
[18:45] <@Golden> No
[18:45] <@Golden> Win as in awesone
[18:45] <@Golden> awesome
[18:45] <Winchester> :D
[18:45] <Winchester> Glad we're on the same page. Desu?
[18:46] <Angry_Desu> My page contains a picture.
[18:46] <LurkingGoblin> I'm glad my idea solved things
[18:46] <Angry_Desu> This picture involves a bald man.
[18:46] <Angry_Desu> You may guess the rest. =P
[18:47] <Winchester> Depends on which bald man. I can think of two really different ones
[18:47] <Winchester> I'm kind of hoping you're thinking of Mr Burns, and not Picard...
[18:48] <Angry_Desu> Essentially i still believe you're trying to hard to make causes match up to an event you want rather than the right way around - but i'm aware concensus over this is going to go against me.
[18:48] <LurkingGoblin> Well we have time to modify it you know
[18:48] <LurkingGoblin> Strikers is what, arc 4, arc 5?
[18:48] <LurkingGoblin> arc 5 I think
[18:49] <LurkingGoblin> we are still on arc one
[18:49] <LurkingGoblin> and this is almost a year into the project
[18:49] <LurkingGoblin> we have plenty of time to make everything perfect
[18:51] <Winchester> IMO what we just came up with is a lot simpler than figuring out some way for Vivio to be rescued if she's never met Nanoha prior to getting her ass kicked on the cradle. If their first meeting is a battle and a lot of pain, without the buildup of trust beforehand, Vivio will never hold back, and will fear Nanoha rather than try to oppose the "remote control".
[18:52] <LurkingGoblin> yeah that is a problem
[18:52] <LurkingGoblin> we kinda need to be contrived if we want Vivio to be with Nanoha and Fate at all
[18:53] <LurkingGoblin> Oh Desu, you were talking bout rewriting the first couple chaptors to account for one or more other MGs at the save right?
[18:53] <Winchester> Nanoha bonding with Vivio beforehand is nearly essential for Vivo to turn into a sane kid, rather than a cornered animal
[18:54] <Angry_Desu> Gob: Yeah, maybe, kinda.
[18:54] <LurkingGoblin> I have two separate scenarios for you too consider
[18:57] <LurkingGoblin> First Shugo Chara. Utau being an idol is at her concert nearby, is resting in between sets and watching the local news when BAM! Girl threatening to jump, despite being kinda "bad" Utau's still human and goes to save Akiko, cue her running out transforming and saving her
[18:58] <LurkingGoblin> which form she does so in is up to you
[18:58] <Angry_Desu> how fast is she?
[18:58] <LurkingGoblin> not sure, comparable to A's Nanoha I would think
[18:58] <Angry_Desu> part of the reason i see fate doing the 'main' save is because from the moment she steps off the tower Akiko has about 8 /seconds/ before she hits the floor at lethal speed.
[18:58] <LurkingGoblin> eh' point
[18:59] <LurkingGoblin> which is what brings me to my other idea
[19:00] <LurkingGoblin> what if a Villain save her? not all DK's have to be chaotic evil
[19:01] <Winchester> Hmm. Are there any well known high-rises with concert venues or movie parlors inside that might be holding a premier with lines around the block for tickets and sufficient profile for news chopper coverage?
[19:01] <LurkingGoblin> what if one of these darker people saves her, or what if an MG and a DK are fighting nearby and work together to save her
[19:01] <LurkingGoblin> let me check
[19:01] <LurkingGoblin> GOOGLE MAPS HOOOOOOO!!!!!
[19:01] <Angry_Desu> Win: the idea was some kind of open concert,
[19:02] <Angry_Desu> Probably for charity. so you'd really only need a large enough space for a temp stage and standing room.
[19:02] <Winchester> It's kind of hard to get a crowd to focus anywhere but on the stage, how would she attract attention?
[19:02] <@Golden> The booming voice.
[19:03] <Angry_Desu> That's the tricky bit. Just firing off her attacks is iffy since they could be mistaken for fireworks.
[19:03] <Angry_Desu> one possibility is... like...
[19:03] <Angry_Desu> high up enough, likely on a balcony of some kind, is a high-angle camera taking shots of the whoe crowd and whatnot.
[19:04] <Angry_Desu> On stage are likely bigass screens showing the various shots these cameras are taking - cycling through 'em and such.
[19:05] <Angry_Desu> In that case if she jumped down in front of one of those cameras - she could still be high enough for a lethal fall, and would appear on a big screen in front of everyone.
[19:05] <Winchester> My suggestion is, someone really popular (shugo Chara possibly) is holding a concert in an indoor venue. Lines for tickets go around the block. TV choppers are in the air. Akiko is on the roof. Pilot spots Akiko, just as she's planned, and when she's sure she has their attention, she does her thing and jumps off. Nanoha and Fate are among the girls waiting in line, and someone has a portable
[19:05] <Winchester> TV running (maybe watching the news on their phone while they wait
[19:05] <Angry_Desu> Someone else suggested she blow something up but...
[19:06] <Angry_Desu> while it'd get attention it could also set the girls below on an immediate 'enemy!' footing, which isn't good.
[19:06] * Thy-Robocop (qwebirc@Rizon-7EAE7BB8.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com) has joined #Fantasia
[19:07] <Thy-Robocop> hello everyone
[19:07] <Angry_Desu> Thy will know. He's Smrt.
[19:07] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: you raaaang?
[19:07] <Angry_Desu> Also, lurch.
[19:07] <@Golden> He won't know
[19:07] <Winchester> Lol.
[19:07] <@Golden> This requires knowing the area.
[19:07] <LurkingGoblin> All I could find near the Tokyo Tower was an improbably large Tenis Court and an improbably small running track
[19:08] <LurkingGoblin> Japan is amusing
[19:08] <Angry_Desu> Thy - assuming Akiko is hijacking an outdoor concert type deal.
[19:08] <Winchester> Big building in Tokyo with a ticket office at the bottom where a line could form that goes around the block.
[19:08] <Angry_Desu> What can she do to attract attention to begin with?
[19:08] <LurkingGoblin> incredibly flashy light show+bombing voice?
[19:09] <LurkingGoblin> booming*
[19:09] <havocfett> Fuck, wrong channel
[19:09] <havocfett> ....It keeps happening!
[19:09] <havocfett> Sorry
[19:09] <Angry_Desu> haha.
[19:09] <dan-heron> how much augment does Akiko have transformed?
[19:09] <@Golden> You haven't said anything havocfett
[19:09] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: right, for attracting attention
[19:10] <Thy-Robocop> depending on the kind of outdoor concert
[19:10] <dan-heron> Could it be enough to let her climb the front of the building?
[19:10] <Thy-Robocop> there should be support structures for cameras and such, or something along those lines
[19:10] <Thy-Robocop> Akiko could just waltz in front of a camera
[19:11] <Angry_Desu> I was considering having one on a high enough balcony for top angle shots,
[19:11] <Thy-Robocop> then again, I've never really been to a concert
[19:11] <Angry_Desu> she could easily hop in front of those.
[19:11] <Winchester> Are we married to the concert concept?
[19:11] <dan-heron> Desu, could she climb the front of the building transformed? Not in a single jump, of course
[19:12] <Angry_Desu> Not necessarily Win, but it's one that explains why everyone and cameras are there to hijack
[19:12] <Winchester> Most outdoor concert venues I've looked at don't have many places tall enough for there to be enough reaction time, that would also be places where people would even notice she was there without doing something really flashy
[19:12] <Angry_Desu> Mmm... I already had her leaping up staircases so she's at least able to jump a good ten feet straight up.
[19:13] <Angry_Desu> 8-10 even
[19:13] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: as to the married to the concert concept
[19:13] <Winchester> Look at it like this. Remember they Harry Potter movies, and what happened in the big cities when tickets were released?
[19:13] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: it doesn't have to really be a concert
[19:13] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: it really just has to be some kind of situation where Akiko can hijack a live transmission
[19:13] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: which can be viewed by Fate
[19:13] <Angry_Desu> Win: See, it wouldn't be at a proper concert place. Think more 'outdoor street party' - the UK and US tend to pull such things quite often around new years or some major holidays
[19:13] <Winchester> I remember standing in line two corners away from the ticket counter, and I don't live in a large town.
[19:14] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: or be close enough for Fate to realize what's happening
[19:14] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: and intervene
[19:14] <@Golden> The Tokyo Sky Tower (now Sky Tree) is located in Sumida City
[19:14] <Winchester> Let me explain completely, before commenting?
[19:15] <dan-heron> ok
[19:15] <Winchester> Ticket releases for big premieres are huge media events, and if the line is long enough, copters will get sent just to show how big it really is
[19:16] <@Golden> The National Sumo Stadium is located there.
[19:16] <Winchester> Everyone has seen footage of the incredible lines for stuff like Star Wars, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. I remember even standing in some, and I live in a comparatively small town
[19:17] <Winchester> And it's pretty easy to pick out some of these events ahead of time - everyone knew months in advance that there would be a huge event for LOTR, for example
[19:17] <Winchester> People standing in line want things to do, and many bring stuff like portable TVs. Watching the news coverage of the event you're partaking in is coool beyond belief
[19:17] <Winchester> Especiallly since you might see yourself on TV
[19:19] <Winchester> So, big event is planned, Akiko knows there'll be copters. Someone in the line is bound to be watching themselves on TV using a phone or something, and yell "holy shit look at this" when Akiko gets camera focus.
[19:19] * havocfett (cgiirc@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[19:19] <Winchester> And standing within earshot are fate and Nanoha, and possibly others.
[19:19] * havocfett (cgiirc@Rizon-F6CC41FC.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) has joined #Fantasia
[19:19] <Angry_Desu> sumida, for reference, is part of tokyo
[19:19] <Winchester> That gets Fate within reaction distance of Akiko
[19:20] <Winchester> Does this sound good enough?
[19:20] <dan-heron> how close do we want Fate?
[19:21] <dan-heron> because if the rescue happens long before Akiko can get to ground level, people will cry Hoax harder
[19:21] <Winchester> In eight seconds, you fall something like 40 meters, or ten stories
[19:21] <Angry_Desu> more, actually.
[19:21] <Winchester> Wron.
[19:21] <dan-heron> Then again, Fate may want to get Akiko to the ground to check if she's ok or not
[19:22] <Winchester> 5+15+25+35 It takes four seconds to fall 100 meters
[19:22] <Thy-Robocop> ok
[19:22] <dan-heron> so, instead of having physical evidence where Fate crashes on the ground, the evidence appears from where she takes off to try and catch Akiko?
[19:22] <Thy-Robocop> anyone seen my latest post on the thread?
[19:23] <Angry_Desu> i 8 seconds you fall about... just under 320 meters
[19:23] <Winchester> Yeah, I got my math completly wrong at first
[19:24] <dan-heron> so, Fate would have plenty of time to catch her long before she goes halfway down, then
[19:24] <Winchester> Depends on how long the line is. Also, barrier jacket setup
[19:24] <Angry_Desu> Well, it varies depending on how you fall and stuff, but it's a lot less time than people think.
[19:25] <dan-heron> yeah, but if Fate is right below, then she will be there before Akiko manages to fall a few hundred meters
[19:25] <Winchester> If she's on another side of the building, she'll need to maneuver and she won't have eyes on target when she takes off, which adds time
[19:26] <dan-heron> If she's been watching the broadcast, she will know where it is
[19:26] <Angry_Desu> dammit... the only good sat pictures of the sky tree i have are while it was under construction
[19:26] <Winchester> Yes, but she'll lose track when she takes off until she gets to where she can see her
[19:27] <dan-heron> That's why she has Bardiche, Winchester
[19:28] <Angry_Desu> oh god this one's even worse - before it's even built
[19:28] <dan-heron> it tracks the sudden flare of the magic transformation and guides Fate towards it
[19:28] <Angry_Desu> *started even
[19:28] <dan-heron> unless you want them to leave Bardiche and RH back at home
[19:28] <Winchester> No, she has bardice
[19:28] <dan-heron> The Artha is already on orbit?
[19:29] <dan-heron> anyway. Akiko's rescue now will have far less dramatic end when we consider things
[19:30] <Angry_Desu> actually, smashing into the ground was kind of important...
[19:30] <Angry_Desu> Two words: Physical Evidence
[19:30] <dan-heron> indeed Desu
[19:30] <Angry_Desu> It's very hard to dismiss it as a hoax when there's a crater to see
[19:30] <dan-heron> that's why I'm asking those things. If Fate is at ground level in the immediate area, she will go up, not down
[19:30] <dan-heron> and far slower and much more controlled
[19:30] <Winchester> Toho Cinemas in Roppongi hills is an option, I think? http://www.tohotheater.jp/theater/009/access.html
[19:31] <Angry_Desu> annoying thing is the sky tree has this huge empty area beside it (these pics are during construction so its part of the building site) which i wish i knew what it was used for after.
[19:31] <Angry_Desu> If it's some kind of plaza or something then it'd be perfect.
[19:32] <Winchester> Oooh, I just found the perfect building
[19:32] <dan-heron> from the photos I have seen, there's a train line right next to it, Desu
[19:32] <Winchester> Shinagawa Prince Hotel, a huge high-rise with a multiplex cinema at the bottom
[19:33] <Winchester> http://www.princehotels.co.jp/shinagawa/
[19:34] <dan-heron> that does look like a place that would attract a crowd and the news
[19:34] <dan-heron> .... those are real dolphins?
[19:34] <dan-heron> I think they are
[19:35] <Winchester> They are
[19:35] <Winchester> Google translate says they have an aquarium with dolphin shows
[19:35] <Angry_Desu> Hm...
[19:35] <Winchester> And an 11 screen mobie theater with 3D capability.
[19:35] <Angry_Desu> Hibiya park seems workable.
[19:36] <Angry_Desu> surrounding buildins include... quite a lot of really damn important and large ones
[19:36] <Winchester> Did you look at the hotel? I think it's the one they used for inspiration for one of the scenes in Stand Alone Complex
[19:38] <Winchester> http://www.ampactours.com/Japan1/Tokyo/ShinagawaPrince.html can't find any really big pics of the whole thing
[19:39] <Winchester> To me, it pretty much looks perfect
[19:39] <Angry_Desu> That's... pretty tall.
[19:41] <Winchester> Yes, and it's big enough that it might take enough time to fly around the building to make the catch really spectacular
[19:41] <Angry_Desu> I am seeing... a fuckhuge car park.
[19:41] <Angry_Desu> Which is kind of exactly the sort of place you could put a big open air concert if you needed to.
[19:42] <Angry_Desu> well, outside event at least
[19:43] <Winchester> Mmm. Big event on the roof of the car park, Akiko is on the roof of the hotel proper.
[19:43] <Angry_Desu> See. outside makes it easier to work with, and a concert allows for more choices in why girls are there.
[19:44] <Angry_Desu> People like that shugo chara girl, or someone like Sailor Neptune, both have civilian identities which would be interested in (or roped into by manages) some kind of bigass charity concert.
[19:44] <Winchester> Then again, being actually *at* a concert would prevent people from watching the news
[19:45] <Angry_Desu> giant screens as part of the stage setup.
[19:45] <Angry_Desu> of Akiko makes enough noise/light/whatever that people down below notice - even if they can't actually /see/ her up top.
[19:45] <Winchester> If the concert hasn't started yet and Nanoha/Fate are standing in line at street level to hear the news, but other girls (the ones with artist civilian jobs) are on the roof and will see Fate's interception
[19:47] <dan-heron> ok, a crack idea
[19:47] <dan-heron> a few weeks ago Mdkcde gave me an idea for having the Paradoxes rescuing Akiko. The girls watching the concert from home and seeing the news unfolding. Black Matagi hijacks the cameras and sees that it is indeed happening and it's real. Then Black Devil Girl teleports herself in position for the rescue while the rest of the team is far behind her.
[19:48] <dan-heron> Akiko is freaking out, so Black Devil Girl undoes her transformation and Akiko flips once she sees Junko's Otherself. Right in time for Fate to show up
[19:48] <Angry_Desu> Ah yes, the reverse seeing.
[19:49] <dan-heron> yep. Junko thinks Akiko is scared of the whole horns and black claws, so she turns that down, which gives Akiko a first seat view of the transformation and the giant, horned, impaled skull floating next to Black Devil Girl
[19:50] <Winchester> Way to traumatize her even worse.
[19:50] <dan-heron> yeah, that's why the idea stopped there
[19:51] <dan-heron> Either Junko turns down the transformation when Fate and Nanoha appear to show them that she's one of the good guys despite, you know, the whole demonic appearance, or she depowers to try and calm Akiko down
[19:52] <dan-heron> Taking Akiko into the Otherworld version of Tokyo would scare her even more too
[19:55] <@Golden> Of course it would.
[19:55] <@Golden> Only BRS could possibly have made the save without scaring her.
[19:57] <dan-heron> hmm, I could have Mato grabbing onto Junko and telling her to get them there
[19:58] <Winchester> I'm writing up my idea on the forum, to make it a little easier to read in full
[19:58] <dan-heron> aye
[19:59] <Angry_Desu> See, on the whole I would like to have more girls involved in the initial 'event' - even if not actually making the save directly.
[19:59] <@Golden> Problem is why would they all be there?
[19:59] <Angry_Desu> One thought is that Fate does the save but, still going to fast, has other girls pulling shit out to cushion the impact.
[19:59] <@Golden> We need people who could legitimately be there
[20:00] <Angry_Desu> Yeah
[20:00] <Angry_Desu> Hence an open concert
[20:00] <@Golden> More than that
[20:00] <@Golden> Fate/Nanoha are there because they're on vacation.
[20:01] <@Golden> Essentially visiting Tokyo
[20:01] <Winchester> ...going to a movie premiere?
[20:01] <Angry_Desu> you have some in the crowd (Fate, Nanoha, Arf), some as actual idols (Shugo Chara girl, Rise, Neptune), girls who may be there because of relations with said idols (Uranus + Saturn for Neptune, any of the P4 crowd for Rise, etc)
[20:01] <Winchester> Maybe they're waiting in line for tickets to Rebuild of Evangelion...
[20:01] <@Golden> Let's not use Rise.
[20:01] <Winchester> Or similar.
[20:01] <Angry_Desu> The trick is having enough to work with, but not so many that can just go BLAM and solve.
[20:01] <@Golden> It'll screw with Persona of Justice
[20:02] <Angry_Desu> She was more of an example there =P
[20:02] <dan-heron> Rise can be there. She's just developing her powers, and she's just support
[20:03] <dan-heron> she's also probably working, so while she could bring a friend, she'd actually be working instead of giving them a tour or something
[20:03] <Angry_Desu> Rise, technically, can't actually /do/ anything even if she is there.
[20:03] <dan-heron> exactly
[20:03] <Angry_Desu> Since prior to the Justice bits the P4 crowd can't use their powers in 'the real world' anyway.
[20:04] <LurkingGoblin> Shugo Chara could work for the other girls/boys there
[20:04] <LurkingGoblin> one of them even saves a main character after a similar fall in canon
[20:04] <Angry_Desu> But the point is that it shouldn't be a case of 'everyone coincidentally in the crowd'
[20:04] <LurkingGoblin> with a giant magical cushion
[20:05] <LurkingGoblin> Utau is an idol from Shugo Chara, the characters went to see her more then once as I recall
[20:06] <LurkingGoblin> And the main character can also fly
[20:06] <LurkingGoblin> so there's several options just from Shugo Chara
[20:07] <LurkingGoblin> that's if we are sticking with the magical idol thing at least
[20:07] <Angry_Desu> Essentially if fate makes the high speed grab and is still going to crash we have three/four main things other girls can do.
[20:07] <Angry_Desu> 1) clear the area. 2) cushion the impact. 3) medical care. 4) crowd control.
[20:12] <LurkingGoblin> 1: Nanoha+wide area protection, 2: Tadase Hotori+his bubble magic cushion...thing. 3: Amu+Su transformation 4: Utau+I gots wings and magical voice, let us do our job!
[20:13] <LurkingGoblin> Shugo_Chara_Cast.jpg
[20:13] <LurkingGoblin> shugo chara cast, for those interested
[20:13] <LurkingGoblin> the idol is far left with blond hair
[20:13] <Angry_Desu> I am amused at the fact that Utau looks somewhat like and sounds like Fate.
[20:14] <Angry_Desu> Such things have to be made mention of.
[20:14] <LurkingGoblin> lol, indeed
[20:14] <@Golden> Of course.
[20:15] <LurkingGoblin> Nanoha: "Ohhh you look so much like Fatechan!" Utau: *Huff*
[20:15] <LurkingGoblin> Fate: *blush*
[20:16] <@Golden> Utau will probably be a one-off appearance for Arc 1
[20:16] <Angry_Desu> Amusingly Utau kind of works if you have people looking for Fate... and find the wrong girl because they look alike.
[20:16] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[20:17] <LurkingGoblin> I fill bad for them and Utau, Shugo Chara magic is the Star trek of magic girls, it's plot based
[20:17] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[20:17] <@Golden> Oh we could have a scene on TV where they say they found Scythe-chan and it turns out to be Utau instead.
[20:17] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[20:18] <Angry_Desu> Amusingly Rise probably knows Utau in a professional sense,
[20:19] <Angry_Desu> Rise: "I can't believe you never told me you were a magical girl!"
[20:19] <Angry_Desu> Utau: "Well..."
[20:19] <dan-heron> for how long has Utau been an Idol?
[20:19] <Angry_Desu> Rise: "And you looked so cute in that black outfit and scythe too!"
[20:19] <Angry_Desu> Utau: "..."
[20:20] <dan-heron> Because in P4 canon, a new Idol takes over Rise's old gig after Rise goes to Inaba. But it'd be a 2 years top career at the time of BFP
[20:20] <Angry_Desu> And so did Utau go on an epic quest to find Fate in order to /stand next to her/ to prove she isn't the scythe girl.
[20:20] <LurkingGoblin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-jHN4YKdO8
[20:20] <LurkingGoblin> Shugo with MGLN music
[20:20] <LurkingGoblin> for the lulz
[20:20] <@Golden> We should do that.
[20:21] <@Golden> The entire point of her appearance in Arc 1 is that
[20:21] <@Golden> Comedic elements away
[20:21] <dan-heron> it'd balance neatly the nightmare elements
[20:21] <@Golden> Doubtful.
[20:21] <@Golden> We're reaching the point where horror is going to get worse.
[20:21] <dan-heron> and I think I can tell where Suda got the inspiration for Bizarre Jelly 5
[20:22] <LurkingGoblin> Shugo Chara is the most toothache inducing (good) magical girl anime
[20:22] <@Golden> I gots to go now.
[20:22] <Winchester> You lot are right now talking about a lot of characters I don't know a thing about..
[20:22] <Angry_Desu> amusingly we now have three black devil girls.
[20:22] <dan-heron> see ya Golden
[20:22] <@Golden> Time to go take my test..
[20:22] <@Golden> See ya
[20:22] <Angry_Desu> Utau, black with devil wings.
[20:22] <LurkingGoblin> so it can lighten things up a bit
[20:23] <Angry_Desu> Fate, devilish scythe.
[20:23] <Angry_Desu> Black devil girl - Actually Black Devil Girl.
[20:23] <LurkingGoblin> Utau has two dark outfits fyi
[20:23] * @Golden (cgiirc@Rizon-801DC985.hsd1.va.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[20:23] <Winchester> Doesn't Dee also have a scythe, or am I misremembering?
[20:23] <Angry_Desu> I can't help but see BDG whining now and then about how the other two stole her 'thing'
[20:23] <LurkingGoblin> one with the big black wings and one with chibi devil wings
[20:24] <dan-heron> that'd be funny. Hmmm, now I'm imagining her thinking about ways to improve her situation. Chibi wings?
[20:25] <Angry_Desu> Stealing Dee's scythe... thus prompting yet another brawl to the mostly-death.
[20:25] <LurkingGoblin> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXyAzv2vVo8
[20:25] <LurkingGoblin> because it's relevent
[20:25] <LurkingGoblin> XD
[20:30] <Angry_Desu> I quite like the BRS-y 'surprises Akiko' thought of Dans...
[20:30] <LurkingGoblin> more utau http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTLsqZn_M_E
[20:31] <Angry_Desu> Gives her something to shoot at and draw the attention of others perhaps.
[20:31] <LurkingGoblin> huh
[20:31] <LurkingGoblin> that's a thought
[20:32] <dan-heron> I'm thinking that if Mato and Junko do the rescue, it'll be Junko opening two portals, one to "catch" Akiko as she goes down, and the other to launch her back up, so she bleeds off the momentum on her own without risking breaking her on pieces trying to stop her
[20:32] <Angry_Desu> Change akiko's speech a bit to be more aimed at BDG(or whoever) - who she thinks is a nightmare come to get her
[20:32] <dan-heron> then Rock is just up there to grab Akiko before she starts falling again
[20:32] <Angry_Desu> make it more a screaming rant before she essentially tells her that it's all going to end and jumps
[20:33] <Angry_Desu> The problem is that it makes whoever immediately suspicious to the other girls.
[20:34] <dan-heron> well, send me a modified speech from Akiko through a PM, Desu. I'll see what I can cook up from there, or using the old one
[20:34] <Angry_Desu> Don't really have one yet =P i'm just sort of considering potential avenues here.
[20:35] <dan-heron> ok then I'll write something from what we already had before
[20:35] <Angry_Desu> a paradox kind of works because the otherself could note Akiko on the rooftop before she does anything, and makes a perfect thing to a) freak her out when trying to be nice and b) akiko to shoot at and draw everyone else's attention.
[20:35] <dan-heron> oh! I see what you mean now
[20:36] <dan-heron> the idea I had was the the team was back home and watching from TV
[20:36] <Angry_Desu> keep with fate doing the initial save, but perhaps have Nanoha (or one of the other series girls) head to confront the paradox.
[20:36] <Angry_Desu> er, ideally someone not trigger happy =P
[20:36] <dan-heron> Rock and Devil are good options
[20:37] <dan-heron> Matagi would get the job done, but there'd likely be trauma involved
[20:37] <dan-heron> even more trauma I mean
[20:37] <Angry_Desu> Hm. Maybe Utau can go up to confront the paradox while Fate is saving Akiko - which leads to the conficting account of what 'the devil girl' did.
[20:38] <Winchester> ...And Desu thought I was overcomplicating things with the StrikerS plot earlier...
[20:39] <Angry_Desu> Eh, this isn't so much overcomplicating as it is an issue of getting others involved without just having them 'pile straight on'
[20:39] <Angry_Desu> it also solves how akiko gains attention without coming off as a bad guy (by blowing shit up or whatnot)
[20:39] <Winchester> I thought I already did?
[20:40] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: speaking of Akiko, did you catch the idea I posted on the main thread?
[20:40] <LurkingGoblin> The only problem with the Utau thing is this is well before her Heal Face Turn. She would rush to save someone jumping off a building, but I don't see her attacking/confronting anyone unless they started something
[20:40] <Winchester> All she has to do is step out on the roof of a building when there's a newscopter flying around already and wait for them to spot her
[20:40] <Angry_Desu> Maybe. It'd be nice, at least, to have someone /other/ than one of the MGLN group confront the paradox.
[20:41] <Angry_Desu> Thy: er, not yet. lemme go look now.
[20:41] <LurkingGoblin> true, but having three or 4 groups of mgs at the start seem just a bit much
[20:41] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: about what if one of Akiko's potential teammates didn't meet with her, because she moved to Europe or the USA before she could?
[20:41] <LurkingGoblin> then again we did want to start the megacross eariler
[20:42] <Angry_Desu> Hmmm...
[20:42] <Winchester> Desu: Gamlain has already written the scene where the Paradoxes meet the Nanoha-crew
[20:43] <Winchester> Specifically in the person of Signum
[20:43] <Angry_Desu> I don't know if you were around when i mentioned it but one of my earlier thoughts, which i wasn't too sure about, was that the 'best friend' Akiko killed - had she been purified - would have become a team-mate.
[20:43] <Winchester> Desu: Writing them in at the catching scene messes with what's already written
[20:43] <Angry_Desu> What i have with Akiko, honestly, is a rough idea of how 'her series' would have gone /without/ BF
[20:43] <LurkingGoblin> more BSOD moments for Akiko, joy
[20:43] <LurkingGoblin> =P
[20:44] <LurkingGoblin> God I kinda want to go back and write the 7 years before BF for her
[20:44] <Angry_Desu> And everything, really, falls apart when her 'mascot' dies - without him she lacks upgrades, she doesn't get the purification spell she needs, she faces progressively harder foes with progressively more useless weapons...
[20:44] <LurkingGoblin> it would be more hardcore then PMMM
[20:45] <Angry_Desu> It's entirely plausible one of her other potential team moved away simply because their parents thought the area too dangerous.
[20:45] <Angry_Desu> Lot of unexplained deaths happening around there after all... and everyone knows that there's that crazy delinquant girl who's probably responsible for half the trouble.
[20:45] <LurkingGoblin> and if BF didn't exist she would die when she jumped, and the world would be fucked
[20:45] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: aye, but I was thinking more of a teammate that actually gained some powers
[20:46] <Angry_Desu> She still could - i don't think there's anything actually stopping her from developing them.
[20:46] <Winchester> It would be like Sailor Moon if Luna died before they meet Rei, or something. And then Ami dies.
[20:46] <Angry_Desu> Essentially, Win, that's right.
[20:47] <Angry_Desu> Damarri and his death was based on the issue of how massively over-reliant a /lot/ of magical girls - especially the more cliche ones - are on their mascots.
[20:47] <Winchester> Anyway, leave the paradoxes out of the interception scene, because their first meeting with the alliance is awesome enough already
[20:48] <Angry_Desu> Luna was responsible for detecting DK plans. For finding other senshi. For providing them with transformation items. For generally knowing potentially vital infos. etc. etc. Remove her early on and moon is /fucked/
[20:48] <LurkingGoblin> Also we should at some point bring that up in BFP, have the MGs sitting around and have the thought "Would that have been me if ______ had died?"
[20:48] <Angry_Desu> A lot of the precure girls, too, rely on their mascot types for transformations or top attacks.
[20:48] <Winchester> And Rei was the team's only actual offensive power until Makoto and Venus joined'
[20:49] <dan-heron> but those times they are "merged" with the girls, Desu
[20:50] <Angry_Desu> Depends on the series Dan. Some of them they have next to no connection, others they're more reliant.
[20:50] <dan-heron> yep, and many times it's been done already against them
[20:50] <dan-heron> in Splash Star, the fairies almost died back then
[20:51] * Golden (cgiirc@79C987A4.4D9AE06F.3F9E6704.IP) has joined #Fantasia
[20:51] <Angry_Desu> But yeah... the Damarri thing was taking that sort of thing and going through with it.
[20:51] <Golden> 10 minutes
[20:51] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Golden
[20:51] <Angry_Desu> Add that to playing how nasty most MotW are much straighter and things turn damn scary damn fast.
[20:51] <@Golden> What are you talking about?
[20:52] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Nightmare Factory'
[20:52] <Angry_Desu> by 'straighter' i mean more that people (victims/bystanders) don't 'miraculously survive everything somehow'
[20:53] <Angry_Desu> Gold- Akiko: The story.
[20:53] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Nightmare Factory, MotW'
[20:53] <Winchester> Btw, here's a google maps link to the Prince Hotel, for reference: http://tinyurl.com/7yfl3gt
[20:53] <dan-heron> Ok, I'll be leaving in a moment. I'll if I can write the modified rescue scene
[20:53] <Angry_Desu> The NF then came about more because, y'know, they were different. Sneakier. Didn't immediately fall to the major stupidities of the average dark kingdom.
[20:53] * Golden changes topic to 'Battle Fantasia Project - http://forums.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=215941 - Topic of Conversation: Nightmare Factory, MotW, Akiko'
[20:54] <@Golden> They're also crueler than the average DK
[20:54] <dan-heron> see ya
[20:54] <@Golden> More sadistic
[20:54] * dan-heron (cgiirc@B1CB7402.34787763.18A8FAFF.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[20:54] <@Golden> Like seinen enemies more than MG enemies
[20:55] <Angry_Desu> In some ways yes. But think about some of the MG enemies - really. Moon had people turned into monsters, or having what was essentially their heart/soul ripped out.
[20:55] <@Golden> Manga Sailor Moon enemies were darker than most.
[20:55] <@Golden> But the anime lightened them.
[20:55] <Angry_Desu> Sakura had these big ass elemental types who caused a shitton of destruction but somehow managed to never injure or kill anyone.
[20:56] <@Golden> With the NF, we have a more...darker enemy.
[20:56] <Angry_Desu> So yeah, the NF are more sadistic i guess - but it's more because they're not being toned down to the normalities of the genre than anything else.
[20:57] <@Golden> I do remember that they were described as fitting of the Seinen genre more than anything else.
[20:57] <Angry_Desu> But calling Akiko's story 'seinen' is probably true. A seinen-aimed magical girl story.
[20:58] <@Golden> It's why I've developed Kalik and the NDC to fit that theme.
[20:58] <@Golden> While the MG elements are there, they aren't quite redeemable.
[20:58] <@Golden> Though the NDC is more redeemable by their natures more than anything else.
[20:58] <Angry_Desu> Honestly a lot of older MG series had pretty irredeemable enemies.
[20:59] <@Golden> It was a mix
[20:59] <@Golden> MSM (Manga Sailor Moon) had irredeemable enemies while ASM were more sympatheitc.
[20:59] <Angry_Desu> you tended to have one or two, yeah, usually an enemy general who someone fell for.
[21:00] <@Golden> It depends on the tone of the story.
[21:00] <Angry_Desu> but a heck of a lot got the 'blast them 'till they're dust' ending
[21:00] <@Golden> If it's light, then they're redeemablr.
[21:00] <@Golden> If not, then they aren't.
[21:00] <Angry_Desu> more because they were aimed at kids and black/white good/evil is easier to sell to kids.
[21:00] <@Golden> The NF I see as mostly the extreme end of KILL IT WITH FIRE
[21:01] <Angry_Desu> 'this is a bad guy, good guys beat bad guys' is much easier to do for younger target audiences than a gray spectrum of morality is.
[21:01] <@Golden> Well I have to go now anyway
[21:01] <Angry_Desu> Seeya.
[21:01] <@Golden> Time to take test.
[21:01] <@Golden> See ya all
[21:01] * @Golden (cgiirc@79C987A4.4D9AE06F.3F9E6704.IP) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[21:03] <Winchester> Everyone: I've been looking around the damned hotel with Google Streetview, and it still looks *perfect*. There's a mall on the near corner (the place I thought was a car park) and a huge carpark behind the highrises . It's a very deep block from the direction the promo photos are taken
[21:04] <Angry_Desu> It seems a good spot yeah. Mmm... gonna have to make a new notes file i guess.
[21:05] <Thy-Robocop> right
[21:05] <Thy-Robocop> just to double check
[21:05] <Winchester> Be sure to take a look around with streetview, there's a lot of places where girls like Nanoha and fate would be completely natural
[21:05] <Thy-Robocop> has anyone read the latest few posts on the thread?
[21:06] <Angry_Desu> arg. waaaay too many windows open
[21:07] <Angry_Desu> Oh for fucks sake Darth.
[21:07] <Winchester> Lololol, I'm looking into the mall from streetview, there's an Anna Millers cafe...
[21:07] <Angry_Desu> He uses NOX to try and counter ES's comments on villain goals?
[21:08] <Thy-Robocop> has he fallen into the Nietzche trap now?
[21:08] <Angry_Desu> Nox was a threat. A major threat. he could, and did, wipe out whole races. His goal was something major that everyone, including him, believed possible. The whole reason it turned out to not be was due to the tragic nature of his story when taken alone.
[21:08] <Thy-Robocop> as in, "Don't defend your point with soddy arguments?"
[21:09] <Angry_Desu> Darth is trying to equate that to a group who have no hope and the reader can see they have no hope.
[21:09] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: can I quote you, or do you want to have the honors?
[21:10] <LurkingGoblin> to be fair nothing short of a massive alliance of bad guys or something with hacks can really beat the MGA
[21:10] <Thy-Robocop> of replying of course
[21:10] <LurkingGoblin> but the MA is still retarded as a combat threat
[21:10] <Winchester> You need better hacks than the Alliance already have, and that's a really tall order
[21:11] <Thy-Robocop> or a more organized enemy
[21:11] <Angry_Desu> I want to counter him but my brain is full of fuck.
[21:11] <Winchester> Shall I tell him to get his ass over here so you can yell at him?
[21:11] <LurkingGoblin> lol
[21:12] <Angry_Desu> Nox fits more when compared to the NF now i think about it. They are dangerous. They do have successed. they are slated to /win/... except that their 'victory' turns out to not be what they thought it was.
[21:12] <Angry_Desu> And in that final error they lose.
[21:12] <Angry_Desu> Nox thought he could go back in time - and he /did/. Just... not far enough.
[21:13] <Winchester> BTW, will Akiko do like Shoutan Himei and end up changing her magical girl persona?
[21:13] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: there was talk on making her a Nanoha type mage
[21:14] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: and bussing her to Mid-Childa for training
[21:14] <Angry_Desu> the NF think they can make a goddess out of Akiko (by exposing her to masses of nightmare energy, possibly from another dimension) except they essentially miscalculated what she would do next.
[21:14] <Angry_Desu> (re: Refuse)
[21:14] <LurkingGoblin> as a note my brain hurts a bit, i'm trying to follow to many thoughts. I'm gonna hop off for a bit, eat, and try and write something
[21:15] <Thy-Robocop> anyway, about an enemy that could possibly cripple the Alliance, I was going to suggest my "Girl with a shovel" idea
[21:15] <Angry_Desu> i admit the 'how' of the goddess thing is kind of... hazy. Essentially they break down Akiko, then expose her to sealed evil in a can to use her body as the new vessel for the nightmare goddess.
[21:15] <Winchester> That wasn't what I meant. When Himei was recruited as a magical girl in the first place, the story she was told was a lie. When she figured it out and her magical "sponsor" abandoned her, she turned herself into Sailor Nothing
[21:15] <Thy-Robocop> basically, she's the Moriarty of the MGA investigators
[21:16] <Angry_Desu> Ah, no. As far as we know Damarri was 100% honest with Akiko. He was a good guy, he wasn't a plant or a patsy.
[21:16] <Thy-Robocop> who also happens to be some kind of weak fairy magical girl vampire who kills other MG with a shovel
[21:17] <Angry_Desu> So Akiko became a magical girl in good faith on both sides.
[21:17] <LurkingGoblin> tell DA Goblin-Papa said to get along with Desu-Mama and stop being stupid about the MA, something needs to be changed with it. I'm off for now, will try to write some reactions or maybe my Male Magical Girl squad.
[21:18] <LurkingGoblin> will be back later
[21:18] <LurkingGoblin> *waves*
[21:18] <Winchester> I wasn't saying it was the same situation, I was just thinking that Star Reverie jumping off the roof is the end of *Star Reverie*. When Akiko goes after the NF again she'll at first just be Akiko, and when the NF plot fails but ends up empowering her anew, she'll rise under a different magical girl name, more suited to her new powerset
[21:18] * LurkingGoblin (cgiirc@Rizon-71397D14.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[21:19] <Thy-Robocop> I am just reading EarthScorpion chewing out Darth now
[21:20] <Thy-Robocop> fun times
[21:20] <Winchester> The innocence that made her Star Reverie is all gone after she jumps. What comes back afterwards is something different, still her but harder, more tempered.
[21:26] <Angry_Desu> Hmm. I think i see what you mean Win,
[21:27] <Angry_Desu> That's part of why she was going to be bussed to mid as a mid-style mage after the NF was gone. She stops being Star Reverie for good... but at her core she still wants to /save/ people.
[21:28] <Angry_Desu> I imagine in the future she'd end up joining a rescue team - think the group Subaru joins after StrikerS only likely more interplanetary (disaster relief?)
[21:29] <Winchester> Don't bus her. Have her walk into the final battle against the NF, completely powerless, and when they try to do their thing she rips the power out of them and claims it for her own, turning into a completely different magical girl. And then she stays on the team.
[21:29] <Angry_Desu> were she rendered 100% powerless then i'd see her gravitating towards similar roles anyway.
[21:30] <Angry_Desu> Well, the initial idea for her ending was that she is done. Over. she. is. free.
[21:30] <Angry_Desu> And then she turns around and says 'but i still want to save people, and i will go right back into that life to do it'.
[21:31] <Angry_Desu> which, ultimately, is the core of all magical girls - period. The desire to save people.
[21:37] <Winchester> I posted the idea on the forum, let's see what response I get..
[21:49] <Winchester> I remember you (or someone) wrote that since the NF's schtick was using your own powers against you, the key to defeating them would be for Akiko to drop her transformation. This is a variation of that idea - she doesn't drop the transformation due to an epiphany, she walks into the lion's den with no access to any powers whatsoever and because of that gets through to the end, and she does
[21:49] <Winchester> it on sheer courage.
[21:51] <Winchester> In the end, she does exactly what they were doing, she turns their powers against themselves.
[22:04] <Thy-Robocop> It's official
[22:04] <Thy-Robocop> Darth's getting on my nerves
[22:04] <Angry_Desu> ...
[22:04] <Winchester> LOL
[22:04] <Winchester> caps
[22:05] <Angry_Desu> You have a lot more patience than i thought.
[22:05] <Angry_Desu> If he's only managing it now
[22:05] <Thy-Robocop> aye
[22:05] <Thy-Robocop> there are few things that make me angry
[22:05] <Thy-Robocop> very few things
[22:06] <Thy-Robocop> one of them is people missing the point and still being stupid when all the evidence is against them
[22:06] <Thy-Robocop> Darth just so happens to hit that mark
[22:07] <Thy-Robocop> I admit, I know jack all of the MA, except of what is being discussed in the thread
[22:07] <Winchester> BTW, I hope that despite being a bit vehement at times, I don't come off as "my way or the highway" or anything...
[22:08] <Thy-Robocop> but at least I give my enemies the respect they deserve
[22:08] <Thy-Robocop> I may have probably painted him in a corner, though
[22:08] <Thy-Robocop> or maybe not
[22:08] <Angry_Desu> I never saw anything wrong when you were critiquing my stuff. Hell, half of it i agreed with after all.
[22:09] <Winchester> Great, I'll settle for half agreement... :) I want us to use the best ideas, and they don't have to be mine.
[22:10] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: you can say that I have been trained to spot plot holes
[22:11] <Thy-Robocop> Angry_Desu: the Magical Girl story I was writing for my last NaNoWriMo had an organization of MG fight a terrorist girl
[22:11] <Thy-Robocop> who managed to kill their queen and a good chunk of their forces
[22:11] <Thy-Robocop> trying to work out how that would happen helped me realize the gaping holes in my plot
[22:12] <Thy-Robocop> and caused quite a bit of writer's block and time wasted trying to fix it
[22:12] <Winchester> ...and I'm pretty good (IMO) at extrapolating the consequences of various quick fixes, such as the proposed killing of Usagi. *shudder*
[22:13] <Winchester> I know a terrible idea when I see it...
[22:14] <Thy-Robocop> Winchester: I saw that
[22:16] <Winchester> There wouldn't be an MA left if that happened, but the image the public would have of magical girls afterwards would be rather poor..
[22:17] <Angry_Desu> I would be okay with injuring her - even going as far as injuring her in a way which prevents her from having further kids.
[22:17] <Angry_Desu> Because that, in my mind, makes a pretty good explanation for why Usagi never had any kids after Chibi-Usa.
[22:18] <Winchester> Mmm. And it would horrify the other girls, and make them take the MA very seriously. (Venus would still go arctic cold fury, though not quite as bad as if Usagi died. Then, she might never come back out of it)
[22:20] <Winchester> If Usagi dies, forget Aino Minako or "V-chan", there'll be Sailor Venus, senshi of Steel, leader of Chibi-usa's bodyguard.
[22:21] <Winchester> She'll never drop her transformation or her guard again.
[22:21] <Angry_Desu> probably. Wouldn't put it past some of the other girls either.
[22:22] <Winchester> (I'm going with the idea that Minako in particular never stopped blaming herself for princess Serenity's death)
[22:23] * Quine (cgiirc@Rizon-1BF89995.reshall.berkeley.edu) has joined #Fantasia
[22:23] <Thy-Robocop> Ok guys
[22:23] <Winchester> She'll still go into "steel" mode if Usagi is taken out non-permanently, but Usagi will be able to snap her back out of it when she starts recovering
[22:24] <Thy-Robocop> I don't really know how to properly counter Darth in such a way as he would listen
[22:25] <Thy-Robocop> I mean, the way he puts it, he just wants to transform the MA into another Dark Kingdom
[22:26] <Thy-Robocop> and to hell with the whole political aspect which brought the MA in the first place
[22:27] <Quine> When's the last time Rhaka showed up?
[22:29] <Winchester> Day before yesterday, I think
[22:30] <Winchester> I have a *huuge* chat log to give him when he turns up
[22:32] <Quine> This log is taking too long to get posted. What screwed up when you tried to do it yourself?
[22:37] <Winchester> It told me the log was classed as spam...
[22:38] <Winchester> Plus, formatting it for the Wiki is a huge job even if you can get it on there

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